Author Topic: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?  (Read 9498 times)

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Offline temperancellandudno

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Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« on: April 26, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »
Hello everyone

On a recent visit to Llandudno, I and Mrs TL had a pleasant afternoon walking along the Invalids Walk. It set me wondering when this was made and how it got its name? I have seen one of the earliest OS maps that marks it as "Lovers Walk", while the next edition marks it as "Invalids Walk". It runs now into hauler Gardens, but for a long time after construction the Gardens were private. So, I am wondering how it got its name - not many Invalids could climb up from West Shore in its earlier days!! And, when was it built - i imagine at much the same time as Custs Path, i.e. the early 1850s.

It may be that this has all been laid out carefully somewhere - somewhere that i haven't found! Or that someone has investigated its history but not published. I would be grateful for any clues. It's something about which i have become very curious....perhaps I should get out more, indeed spend more time walking round Llandudno! :D

Most grateful if anyone can help.

TL 

Offline Jack

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 06:14:33 pm »
Think it was opened in 1930 by David Lloyd George


Offline DaveR

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 10:46:02 am »
Some info contained in here:

LLANDUDNO: HAULFRE GARDENS
Ref No PGW (Gd) 11 (CON)
OS Map 115
Grid Ref SH 775 826
Former County Gwynedd
Unitary Authority Conwy
Community Council Llandudno
Designations Part included in Great Orme's Head SSSI and Local Nature Reserve.
Site Evaluation Grade II
Primary reasons for grading Remains of terraced garden on steep site originally laid out in
the 1870s by Henry Pochin, with panoramic views.

Type of Site Terraced garden on very steep slope with views; woodland and
semi-formal areas, with many paths; now publicly owned and a public park.
Main Phases of Construction 1871 - 1876; turn of nineteenth and twentieth centuries.

SITE DESCRIPTION

Haulfre Gardens are situated on a very steep slope on the extreme north-west edge of the town of
Llandudno. The house, Sunny Hill, is at the foot of the gardens, which clamber up the hillside
behind it, on the south-east facing slope of the Great Orme. The house is a large nineteenthcentury
villa of a type very common in Llandudno, built on a platform cut out of the cliff - there
is a sheer rock wall very close to the rear. The staff cottages were apparently built in 1865 so the
house is probably of around the same date. It has a double-gabled front with decorative bargeboards
and is rendered and painted white; the roof is slate. It has two storeys and an attic. It is
now used as a cafe, and the small paved area beside it, probably formerly lawn, as a tea
garden. The tarmac drive is short and straight, from the east corner of the garden along in
front of the house to the cottages. Only one gate pier, of dressed stone with a moulded square top,
remains at the entrance.

Nineteenth-century maps show a pair of cottages linked by sheds just south-west of the house.
The copy of the 1911 Ordnance Survey map held in Gwynedd Archives is annotated by hand
'Gardener's House etc.'. In 1995 there was building work in progress and there appeared to be
very little left on the site of one of the cottages, but now there are two apparently brand new
2 houses on the same site, with a sign saying 'Haulfre Gardens Cottages 1865 - 1995'. From this
it seems reasonable to assume that the cottages were originally built in 1865, and demolished
and completely rebuilt on the same site in 1995.

The map of 1913 shows glasshouses all along the back of the cottages and to the south-west,
but these are not shown on the map of 1889 and they have now disappeared. As the cottages
are, like the house, built on a platform blasted out of the rock, there seems little room for
glasshouses at the rear, and also the site must have been shady; but the owner in 1903 grew many
kinds of conservatory plants, including orchids, and the glasshouses may have been some sort
of conservatory, perhaps utilising the natural rock wall at the back. This wall now looks
fresh, as though it has been cut further back, and there is a modern rendered retaining wall on
the top of it.

The site of the gardens is roughly rectangular, with the long axis running north-east to southwest,
and the house lies near the east corner, with the main terraced area above it, on the north,
and woodland and more terraces to the south and west. There is an excellent view of
Llandudno from the house, which becomes ever more extensive as one goes higher up the
garden; views from the highest levels are now obscured by trees but must once have been
panoramic.

The gardens were originally designed and laid out by Henry Pochin, originator of the garden at
Bodnant, between 1871 and 1876. Although Pochin bought Bodnant in 1874, and began
improving the garden there soon afterwards, he was also rebuilding the house and appears not
to have moved from Sunny Hill until 1876. The site is completely different from anything to
be found at Bodnant, being steep, rocky, exposed to sun and wind and elevated, as well as
very much smaller, and it is therefore particularly interesting to observe Pochin's response to
two widely differing sites.

By 1900 the property belonged to Joseph Broome who, according to a 1903 article in The
Gardeners’ Chronicle, specialised in growing orchids and other glasshouse subjects. In 1889
there was already a large glasshouse on the terraces above the house, but by 1911 the area of
glass had been more than doubled, presumably by Broome. This and other changes are well
documented on maps, as an extremely detailed 1:500 Ordnance Survey plan of 1889 exists
as well as 25-in. maps and larger-scale plans of 1911, 1913 and other dates.
Assuming that the 1889 map shows more or less Pochin's original design, the layout at first
consisted of zig-zag paths up the north-east side of the garden, with a summer house part way
up and another in the north corner, probably offering the best view; south-west of this,
directly above the house, were a long, straight terrace with a large glasshouse and another
summer house, and a slope planted with shrubs leading to a curved terrace above. Cutting
across the curved terrace was an aviary, with some small terraced enclosures to the north and
south which may have been used as a kitchen garden. Terraced paths ran along the slope
through woods and shrubberies to the south-west. At this time the land to the west, now an area
of woodland, did not belong to the property, or had not been developed, and was open
heathland.

By 1911 Broome had enlarged the glasshouse and added more, near the cottages. He had added
further terraces to the wooded slope above the main glasshouse, removed the aviary and
completed the curved terrace, adding more terraces in the areas north and south of the aviary
site. He had also created paths in the heathland area to the west, and added more paths and
terraces in the south-western part. By this time there was also a long, narrow enclosure in the
north corner of the garden, outside the original boundary, which may have been used as a
kitchen garden.

The Gardeners’ Chronicle description of 1903 mentions, apart from the many exotics grown
under glass, roses, flowering shrubs, lilies and carnations, several rockeries with alpines, and
areas of bedding. The garden is described as being divided up by hedges for shelter, wind
being a problem.

The garden was subsequently acquired for the town, and was opened as a public garden by
Lloyd George in 1929. The 'Invalids' Walk', a gently-sloping footpath down to the West
Shore which runs along under the south-east boundary wall of Haulfre, now has an alternative
first section passing through the gardens and out by a gate near the south corner.

Today the lowest part of the garden is probably still much as Broome would have recognised
it, apart from the loss of the glass. Most of the structure remains throughout the garden, but
here the paths are maintained and bedding schemes are still planted each year; there are
flowering shrubs and fuchsias, perennials and wall shrubs. Higher up the slope, however, the
woodlands are taking over, and some of the higher terraces are overgrown and paths in the
western area are lost. None of the summer houses have survived, but the sites of two of them
can be seen.

The gardens are intricately laid out with many terraces and paths. In the south-western part of the
garden, the main paths, which are all shown on maps of 1911 and 1913, are the path now used as
part of the 'Invalids' Walk', which runs along at the level of the drive, a walk along the top of the
lawn below this, a tarmac path, with steps and rustic pole handrails, which zig-zags up the southwest
side of the garden, and a path which branches off this and goes back to join the 'Invalids'
Walk' not far from the cottages.

In the area to the west of the cottages, the path layout is not now the same as it is on the old
maps and is even more complicated, with several short paths and flights of steps going in
different directions. There are, however, several terraces with paths along, unsurfaced, grassy,
or tarmac; one of these terraces holds the aviary, and the path is along the front. The handrails
here are broken. Above the cottages, to the north-west, there are more terraces with paths
along, the main one being original, from before 1889, with a wide path now surfaced with
decaying tarmac, and a pole and wire fence along the edge.

Tarmac-surfaced paths run along below the glasshouse terrace, where some very large slate
slabs set in the tarmac may be a dismantled water tank, and round the curved terrace. There is
a zig-zag tarmac path with brick steps up the north-east side of the garden, which becomes
unsurfaced, with concrete steps, above the level of the curved terrace, leading into the north
corner. This looks like a modern path but is shown on the 1889 map, leading to a summer
house in the north corner; it may have changed its route slightly, and the handrails are
modern.

Most of the paths in the wooded area to the west are lost or disused, but the main north-south
path, which used to run just west of the wall dividing off this area, is still well used, and the
wall has gone. The path leading north-eastwards off this one along the top of the garden, just
below the probable kitchen garden enclosure, to the north corner where there is a way out to the
open ground above, is also still used.

The ‘Invalids’ Walk’ is not strictly part of the garden, but now that the garden is open to the
public a more pleasant alternative is available for the first part of the route. The original path,
which still exists and is tarmac-surfaced, runs below the high retaining wall along the south-east
side of the garden, with a retaining wall of its own, topped partly with a stone parapet and
partly with railings, on the other side; south-west of the garden it crosses the open heathy
hillside down towards West Shore. A gate leading out into the same heathy area near the south
corner of the garden makes it possible to begin the walk through the lowest levels of the garden,
starting at the main entrance, and pick up the original path on the open hillside beyond. This is
now the main and most-used path in the garden, and is tarmac-surfaced.

In the south corner of the garden, extending back almost half way along the south-east edge, is
an enclosed area with a long, narrow, sloping lawn with terraced borders above and circular
and diamond-shaped beds in the lawn. The lower edge is defined by the parapet of the
retaining wall. There must once have been a good view out from here but it is now obscured
by trees.

Steps lead into the garden at the north-east end and half way along the north-west side; there
was clearly a path crossing from the latter to a small gate in the parapet, but this is now
blocked and there is a continuous row of shrubs along in front of it and a tiny rockery over
where the path ran. The rockery contains a shallow, circular concrete bird bath on a brick
base presented by the West Denbighshire and Llandudno RSPCA.

The arrangement of the terraces is almost as complicated as the paths, and is to some extent the
same thing as almost all the terraces have paths along, and some are so narrow there is room
for nothing else. Most of the terraces have retaining walls around a metre high above and
below; some are almost level but others, even though they may be narrow, still slope.
In the south-west part of the garden there is a long, terraced border at the back of the enclosed
garden; because of the increasing slope, this is on two levels south-west of the central steps.
Above the enclosed garden there is some new terracing but the one terrace in this area shown on
the old maps does not seem to have survived. Going north-eastwards, there is an area of small
terraces which was created between 1889 and 1911, and has been further modified since; an
aviary has been added to one of these, probably since 1929.

North-westwards again is a longer, wider terrace shown on the 1889 plan, which once must
have had a superb view, now cut off by trees. Narrowing, this continues along at the same level
to a point above the house, where steps lead off to join the zig-zag path up the north-east side
of the garden. Above it here is the most complicated terracing of all, with the site of the
glasshouse and some fairly large terraces above, one curving, and above that two systems of
smaller terraces side by side. The latter were built between 1889 and 1911, as were the
terraces between the glasshouse site and the curving terrace, but the glasshouse terrace and
curved terrace themselves date from before 1889. This area remains mostly open, while the area
of smaller terraces above is mostly overgrown by trees and undergrowth spreading from the
woodland to the north, and some young trees have also been planted on the terraces.
On the steep bank below the main terrace and above the house, there are signs of further
small, disused terraces; there was also a path along here which is now lost.

There are two narrow terraces below the probable kitchen garden in the north corner, and
possibly more above. One of the former carries a path and both are grass-surfaced.
The terrace walls vary in height and construction, but are mainly of mortared or dry stone. Some
have niches for seats, and the positions of some of these do seem to correspond with small
rectangles shown on the 1911 plan.

Along the south-east side of the drive, between it and the parapet of the retaining wall, is a
wide, stone-edged border, with small trees, shrubs and bedding plants. This strip is shown as
containing shrubs on the 1889 plan, but the stretch immediately in front of the house had none,
so as not to block the view, and may have been grass. In the border is the gravestone of a cat,
Ginger, who lived in the gardens from 1970 to 1982.

There are also two small stone-edged borders in front of the cottages in approximately the
same positions as in 1889. East of the house site there is a border alongside a path retained by
stone slabs on edge, but this is now too deeply shaded for planting.

The enclosed garden has a long terraced border at the top, and island beds in circle and
diamond shapes in the lawn. Elsewhere borders run along the terraces next to paths,
occasionally edged with stone. A small circular bed is shown on the 1889 plan between the
house and the cottages, in what was probably a lawn (now the paved area next to the cafe), but
there do not seem to have been any others at this time. The 1903 article in the Gardeners’
Chronicle, however, mentions beds and lists various kinds of bedding plants.

The aviary, which is in a completely different place from the one shown on the 1889 map, was
probably installed after the gardens were opened to the public, but is now disused. It is a long,
narrow building made to fit the terrace on which it stands, not very substantial, and painted
green, with wire-fronted compartments. The pre-1889 aviary did not contain a building, but was
a fairly large enclosure. Near the entrance to the enclosed garden in the south corner is a
wooden shelter, painted green, which was probably erected when the gardens were first opened
to the public.

Three summer houses are shown on the 1889 plan. By 1911 one in the north corner had already
gone. Another, below this, has now gone, with only its concrete platform remaining. The third
was south-west of the glasshouse, at the same level, and was circular, with steps leading up to it
and circling around it to the path above. Only the rear wall and tiled floor remain.

In Pochin's day large trees seem to have been mostly confined to the central and south-western
parts of the garden, the main concentration being on the slope above the cottages. In this area
some large specimens, including beech, Scots and other pines, cypress and ash may still be
seen, some probably planted by Pochin. There are also smaller self-sown ash and sycamore.
A little further north-east are some sweet chestnuts, limes and horse chestnuts.

In the south-western part of the garden, there is a steep grassy slope, towards the top of which
there is so much rock it is almost a natural rockery. In 1913 this area was planted all over with
conifers, and a small group of old twisted pines at the south-west edge are probably survivors
of these. Other young conifers have been recently planted. In the 'rockery' area there is some
gorse, and shrubs have been added. In the eastern part of the garden there are more old trees, not
shown as individual specimens on the 1889 plan so possibly planted by Broome. These include
beech, Scots pine and other conifers, and although there are a few shrubs beneath them this area
is now very shady.

There is a row of planted trees in front of the probable kitchen garden to the north, and below
these some younger flowering and ornamental specimens planted more recently on the terraces
behind the glasshouse site. There is a much older cedar among these.

Many of the terraces have borders alongside the paths, and these are mostly planted with a
mixture of perennials and flowering shrubs. The description of 1903 suggests that hedges were
a feature of the garden, being used as protection from the wind. There are only a few today: in
the enclosed garden there is a fuchsia hedge; a short privet cross-hedge to the north-east was
probably planted as a wind-break, and nearby is some escallonia hedging. The beds in the lawn
of the enclosed garden contain annual bedding around palm trees. There is a row of large
shrubs (mostly laurel) and small trees along the south-east edge, within the wall, and a fuchsia
hedge within this.

There is no kitchen garden as such now, but one is mentioned in 1903 and there is no other
obvious explanation for the level area at the extreme north of the garden, now overgrown with
trees and natural undergrowth. The walls have a retaining rather than a sheltering function, but
create a level interior which is one of the largest level areas in the garden. The south wall is
around 3 m high, one of the highest walls in the garden, and has a long-and-short top course.
There may have been an attempt to create further terraces above the north, partly rock-cut, wall
and there are disused paths along the top, with a small quarry above.

Before this area was constructed it is likely that the kitchen garden was located just to the west
of the main glasshouse, where there were some wide, enclosed terraces which must have sloped
fairly steeply. Further terraces were later added to these, making them narrower but more
level, and this could have marked the change to a different use. This area too is now almost
completely overgrown.

Sources

Primary
Information from Gwynedd Archaeological Trust Sites and Monuments Record (PRN 4457)
Many twentieth-century photographs and postcards in Gwynedd County Archives (accession
nos beginning XS/2352, /1948, /2224 and others)
Secondary
Gardener’s Chronicle, 22 December 1900 (with illustration)
Gardener’s Chronicle, 15 August 1903, pp. 115-15.
Llandudno Town Improvement Association, Official guide to Llandudno (1929)
Wynne Jones, I, Llandudno, Queen of the Welsh Resorts (1975)
A range of tourist guides held in the Gwynedd County Archives, Caernarfon.

Offline Helig

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 11:12:00 am »
This gives quite a good summary of Haulfre Gardens and Invalid's Walk:

http://www.mochdrenews.co.uk/subdom_hp_clone/index.php?mact=News,m73248,default,1&m73248number=3&m73248detailpage=&m73248pagenumber=2&m73248returnid=502&page=502

The Haulfre Gardens Tea Rooms are located in a house once owned by the Lipton family. They were famous for Lipton tea and their grocery shops.

Helig.

Offline temperancellandudno

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 08:28:43 pm »
Many many thanks

Still don't quite have a date, but an enormous amount of information. Many thanks for your help.
 
TL

Offline DVT

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 10:41:11 am »
When was that lengthy, and very informative, article published?

As some of you may know, I am a volunteer guide in Bodnant Garden and there is great interest in the history of Henry Davis Pochin, his family, and their development of properties in the area.

Thank you for any info.

Dave T

Offline Helig

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 10:48:38 am »
I wonder if the original path along there was linked to the Zig Zag path which leads off it? What became Invalids' Walk could well have given access to the Zig Zag path and other paths that ran off it and went up the Orme. My understanding is that the Zig Zag path was an old miner's route to get up to the mines on the Great Orme. In that case it would be c17-18th century, possibly earlier.

http://www.greatorme.org.uk/Trail12.html

Some of the paths on the Great Orme are ancient and were once used to get to the mines, plus St Tudno's church near the summit. The Monks' Path runs up from close by Gogarth Abbey and is said to be a very ancient route for the monks who came over from Ireland.

Helig

Offline rhuddlan

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 10:58:50 am »
There is a memorial to Pochin in Prestatyn High Street viz
:-
http://www.visitoruk.com/Prestatyn/pochin-memorial-fountain-I10292.html

Offline DaveR

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 03:07:48 pm »
When was that lengthy, and very informative, article published?

As some of you may know, I am a volunteer guide in Bodnant Garden and there is great interest in the history of Henry Davis Pochin, his family, and their development of properties in the area.

Thank you for any info.

Dave T
It's from the RCAMHS website:
http://orapweb.rcahms.gov.uk/coflein//C/CPG012.pdf

Offline DVT

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 04:29:36 pm »
Thanks for that, DaveR ... strange why a Scottish government site is publishing that info - seems to be dated January 2012.  As far as I know Pochin had no Scottish family connection until daughter Laura (1st Lady Aberconwy) married Charles McLaren who was of Scottish descent

Offline Hugo

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 07:04:07 pm »
Invalids Walk seems to appear as a footpath in an old map of the 1880's I've just looked at.    The Monk's Path from the Toll House is an ancient track and goes to the remains of the Bishop's Palace at the start of Llys Helyg Drive.     As it enters the Marine Drive from Pen Y Ffordd Goch the right of way extends through the front gardens of the properties until it reaches the Palace which was built around 1300.

Offline temperancellandudno

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 10:22:53 pm »
Many thanks

I've wondered about the Zig Zag and the Monks Path - I wonder where Cust's Path, completed in 1858, stand in relation to those? I suspect we may never know conclusively. Unlike railways, paths rarely had opening dates! But, I am curious about descriptions of Cust's Path as running round the Great Orme - from Toll House to Toll House, or also including the section at the south side of the Orme.

Regards

TL

Offline Hugo

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 10:49:41 pm »
Many thanks

I've wondered about the Zig Zag and the Monks Path - I wonder where Cust's Path, completed in 1858, stand in relation to those? I suspect we may never know conclusively. Unlike railways, paths rarely had opening dates! But, I am curious about descriptions of Cust's Path as running round the Great Orme - from Toll House to Toll House, or also including the section at the south side of the Orme.

Regards

TL

I think that Cust's path probably followed existing paths that were around the Orme.   There is a map in the Archives that shows the path and if I remember correctly it was just below the existing Marine Drive after you start the descent to the West Shore.
It would then have had to go up the ancient track up to Pen Y Ffordd Goch and then come out above the Toll House.
A friend of mine who lives on the western side of the Marine Drive had to allow access through his garden so that a house could be built next door to him.   The next door neighbour had no access to his land and claimed the ancient right of way of the Monk's Path that led directly to the Bishop's Palace and it was upheld

Offline temperancellandudno

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2017, 12:00:52 am »
Hello

Hugo, I think before the hackers wiped the board in Craig's day, you kindly referred me to plans of Custs Path, but by the time I got round to doing anything, the site had been wiped.

Are the Archives those of Gwynedd? Sorry, confused.

Thanks to everyone - very kind to help so much.

TL

Offline Hugo

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Re: Invalids Walk - any idea when it was made?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2017, 08:20:35 am »
Hello

Hugo, I think before the hackers wiped the board in Craig's day, you kindly referred me to plans of Custs Path, but by the time I got round to doing anything, the site had been wiped.

Are the Archives those of Gwynedd? Sorry, confused.

Thanks to everyone - very kind to help so much.

TL

I saw the map in the Conwy Archives in Lloyd Street some time ago.    The staff there are extremely helpful and you don't have to make an appointment to visit there.
They are open to the public Monday to Thursday between the hours of 10.00am to 12.30 pm and 1.30.pm to 4.30 pm