Author Topic: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)  (Read 116033 times)

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Offline Ian

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #270 on: October 09, 2019, 12:42:08 pm »
It's way beyond time incompetence of this magnitude was investigated and those responsible dealt with.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Meleri

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #271 on: October 09, 2019, 01:29:06 pm »
The landlord who owned the property at the time the lease was signed would have known for what purpose CCBC was going to use the building, therefore they are partly to blame for letting a property not fit for purpose. What I would like to know is who in their infinite wisdom from CCBC signed that lease without checking the facts.
Why it hasn't been resolved is puzzling, how long does it take to conduct a survey etc?
As for Jane Richardson Strategic Director for Conwy Council comment " The Council is in regular, ongoing, POSITIVE dialogue with the landlord". From where I am looking at it it's not POSITIVE at all, just get on with it & stop wasting anymore Council Tax payers money, this debacle has gone on for far to long.


Offline DVT

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #272 on: October 09, 2019, 04:58:30 pm »
Who is the landlord that is benefitting from the rent for the building?

Offline spotty dog

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #273 on: October 09, 2019, 08:13:15 pm »
Well I can try and shed some light on this fiasco, but this has not been verified. The developer originally built on spec for B&Q trade outlet,with the downturn they pulled out, in comes CCBC who sign a lease developer uploads to pension ,I would think at a good price with a gold plated tenent.
As regards the floor this stems from the Welsh government's part l building regs these are particularly onerous in Wales making it virtually impossible to build a commercial   viable heated building
The u values need to be achieved on walls roof  and floor I am told you cannot achieve them on walls and roof alone hence the floor being unable to take heavy loads.
I presume of the floor is dug up and  the insulation removed the building won't pass building regs
This I just my interpretation of the information I have.(of cause CCBCwould have been aware of the construction from the outset they passed  it)

Offline SteveH

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #274 on: October 10, 2019, 03:58:46 pm »
Thanks SDog, It crossed my mind that if the premises were unsuitable, why not sell the lease, or is that too simple a solution.


I have waited a bit in case there were any more comments on the Mochdre site issue, but there is another story that appeared this morning, which is adding to the list............

£11.5m super school too small for pupil numbers just two years after opening
Critics said they had warned the council the school was not going to be big enough to cope with growing local population.

Full story and 21 comments some of them sensible
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/115m-super-school-small-pupil-17058132

Offline spotty dog

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #275 on: October 10, 2019, 08:33:25 pm »
Garden Waste Kerbside Collection
Published by:   Conwy County Borough Council
Publication Date:   23/09/2019
Deadline Date:   31/10/2019
Deadline Time:   16:00
Notice Type:   24 Contract Notice (Concessions)
Has Documents:   Yes
Has ESPD:   No
Abstract:   Conwy County Borough Council invites tenders for the implementation of a chargeable household garden waste kerbside collection service and transportation of compostable garden waste to authorised facilities.
CPV: 90500000, 90500000
Here we go

Offline Robbie G

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #276 on: October 13, 2019, 12:11:53 pm »
I have waited some time before replying to this topic .this is only the tip of the iceberg ,we have comments from various people about a host of money wasting schemes , how much has the fiasco with the  problems on the West Shore cost and they are still ongoing , the list keeps on increasing but nothing will change until the there is a complete change to how local government is run .It is the same response from the people in charge it wont happen again  lessons have been learnt etc etc , it will be the same officers in charge same old councillors representing us , when the next election comes along they will tell us the same  stories how they intend reducing our rates ,nobody is held to account for there incompetence , no dismissals perhaps an early retirements with the full benefits is a more likely scenario with the full council wishing him or her a happy retirement , or perhaps a post as a consultant if they are experts at wasting  our money .  some thing needs to be done and urgently .
Yesterday I was told that new Civic Offices in Colwyn Bay are to small and they are intending to redevelop the old market site as extra council offices .

Offline Ian

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #277 on: October 13, 2019, 01:49:10 pm »
After a great deal of digging (something the CCBC officers clearly haven't done) it seems the Mochdre site owners are the Conygar Investment Company PLC, details as follows:

The Board of Directors

N J Hamway (Non-Executive Chairman)
 R T E Ware (Chief Executive)
R H McCaskill (Finance Director)
P M C Rabl (Director)
M D Wigley (Non-Executive Director)

Company Secretary
R H McCaskill

Registered Office
Fourth Floor 110 Wigmore Street London W1U 3RW


The report into the leasing doesn't seem to be available  - at least, not easily. However, some quotes from the report refer to "weaknesses in the processes" and that "Conwy council "missed steps" and "failed" in its process to acquire the lease of a site in Mochdre".

In response, the council stated they will be

"clarifying the roles and responsibilities of staff members involved in acquisitions"
"introducing a new system of checks and balances so that the most senior staff are aware of and have final sign-off on arrangements on high value leases before they are entered into"
"implementing a comprehensive programme of training for staff"


Well, of course, CCBC is only a newly formed council - oh wait, no, it isn't but when it was formed on April Fools' day, in 1996 (how's that for a sense of humour?) it chose not to avail itself of sharing the services of the large councils adjacent to it and preferred to empire build instead - at a cost of millions to council tax payers - and then had to start learning everything from scratch when it could simply have shared. 

But let's see what inspirational changes they're going to make:

1. They're going to clarify the roles and responsibilities of staff members involved in acquisitions.  Wow. They've been in existence now for 23 years and yet they've never developed a system for ensuring staff can't simply buy what they want without reference to the council?

Q. Whose responsibility has it been to create and refine systems covering staff involved in major acquisitions? The council tax payers deserve to know.

2.  They're going to introduce a new system of checks and balances so that the most senior staff are aware of and have final sign-off on arrangements on high value leases before they are entered into.

Q. Apart from ending the sentence with a preposition are they actually saying that before they decided to make this change junior staff could spend hundreds of thousands on a whim without anyone checking?  Q. And how difficult is it to set an amount above which the signature of the chief financial officer is needed?
Q. More to the point, who will be implementing these recommendations and how much will they be paid?  Because I reckon we could form a committee and do it for nothing.

3.  The final point is one that - if it weren't so farcical - could provide the basis for a TV sitcom:  They're going to implement a comprehensive programme of training for staff. 

Q. So are they saying that the staff were not, in fact, trained before all this? I admit, if the office boy can go out and complete a 35-year lease for £20k per month - which is what they seem to be saying has happened - then yes; apparently the staff are not trained very well - if at all.

Some final questions remain and I really think we should push for answers on these:

1. Whose signature is on the lease?
2. Whose responsibility is staff training?
3. Were the sellers advised as to the potential purpose of the building?
4. Have the person or persons responsible for identifying the facilities and signing the lease been asked if they have any relatives, friends, associates or vested interests in the company that owns the site?


« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 05:09:56 pm by Ian »
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Meleri

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #278 on: October 13, 2019, 02:23:10 pm »
Wow! Ian I'm very impressed with your research & agree 100% on pushing for answers to your questions. May I suggest you go straight to the top & send them to the new Leader of the council Cllr Sam Rowlands his e-mail is cllr.sam.rowlands@conwy.gov.uk
I'm sure other members of the forum will be interested in any response you get, so please keep us posted.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #279 on: October 13, 2019, 03:13:40 pm »
Yesterday I was told that new Civic Offices in Colwyn Bay are to small and they are intending to redevelop the old market site as extra council offices .

I agree with everything that you have said but the last sentence would seem unbelievable to anyone, except perhaps those people who know about CCBC.      Even by their standards it's still hard to understand the logic of it

Ian, that's a good bit of investigation there and I hope that the answers can be found.    Let's hope that some Councillors read your findings and have the determination to follow it through

Offline SteveH

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #280 on: October 13, 2019, 03:30:24 pm »
Nice bit of research Ian, 
It is so different from the private sector, I don't think we can comprehend the full extent of the continuing amount  of incompetence, as Robbie said, it is the" tip of the iceberg"  and I think we are brainwashed ( or brain  dead) to expect anything else.

On this page alone we have mentioned Mochdre £636.000,

The "£11.5m super school too small for pupil numbers just two years after opening"

And "Conwy council's new headquarters ( will cost taxpayers almost £1.5m a year in rent for the next 40 years, it has been revealed. The building at Colwyn Bay, where 700 staff will be employed, cost £38.5 million to build. But taxpayers will have to foot a £58m rent bill. " and now "to small and they are intending to redevelop the old market site as extra council offices" .

If this happened in the private sector heads would roll,.......... councilors organise a committee ..........

Offline Hugo

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #281 on: October 13, 2019, 03:52:43 pm »
If it was a private business Steve then they would have gone into liquidation many years ago.         

Offline Meleri

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #282 on: October 16, 2019, 02:51:37 pm »
Taken a leaf out of Ian's book & I have done some research into the Ysgol Awel y Mynydd debacle.

An application for 110 houses at Pentywyn/Marl Lane was made a while ago by a local developer & there were over 1,000 letters opposing this, most mentioned the lack of capacity at Ysgol Deganwy to accommodate the children from this site & another proposed site for 53 houses in Marl Lane. A member of staff from CCBC Education Services Dept submitted a letter stating that the proposed development would place a severe strain on Ysgol Deganwy. Also Ysgol Deganwy submitted a letter mentioning they had previously requested help to provide additional classrooms as they were over subscribed, but the LEA said they didn't have sufficient funds available. They went on to say if permission was granted for the development could provision be made for a donation from the developer to create an additional classroom to accommodate the extra children, but no provision was made.
Cllr's Priestly, Shotter & Cotton all tried their best to get this point over as did Janet Finch Saunders AM. The planning Committee refused permission against the wishes of the Planning Officers so it went to Appeal.

The Strategic Planning Policy Consultation Response for CCBC made by the Case Officer & Policy Officer stated under the heading Education Contribution " It is noted that Ysgol Deganwy is at capacity which is the closest Primary School. However the site falls within the catchment for the New Ysgol y Mynydd which HAS CAPACITY TO MEET THE ANTICIPATED DEMAND generated by the development, therefore the request for financial contribution towards expansion of Ysgol Deganwy would not meet the CIL tests, meaning we cannot request a commuted sum for this".
The Appeal went ahead & permission was granted & the Welsh Government Inspector stated "My response on the planning application was the site fell within the catchment of Ysgol y Mynydd which has sufficient capacity for the demand generated from the development. I have no compelling evidence to suggest otherwise & the Council acknowledge that a financial contribution towards education places would not be warranted under the Community Infrastructure Levy Regulations 2010 tests.
Now here we are as the development is about to be built with no contribution from the developer to accommodate these children in either school, who will be living on both their developments of 163 houses in total.

Offline SteveH

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #283 on: October 24, 2019, 03:53:21 pm »
Damning report finds out of control spending and culture of bullying at Welsh town's council
Councillors were 'voting like sheep', and managed to use up £100,000 over three years.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/damning-report-finds-out-control-17139895

Offline Meleri

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Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
« Reply #284 on: November 01, 2019, 04:01:31 pm »
Householders in Conwy should expect to see the new recycling & bin collection calendar dropping through their letterbox next week.
Next Year CCBC will be introducing a subscription garden waste collection service, so the new calendar only shows green waste collections until the middle of January. CCBC will be sending out information about the new green waste subscription service to residents in January, including how to join up & when it starts  $hands$