Author Topic: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821  (Read 15798 times)

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Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2017, 06:15:36 am »
Many thanks Helig.  Will check them out over the weekend. I don't have any Moran's in my tree currently so what on earth the connection is .....

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2017, 04:07:17 pm »
No, I did wonder if Jane was the sister of Susannah but that didn't work out.

It seems strange for Jane to be buried on the Great Orme if she was from Flint. Also, strange that she wasn't buried with her husband, the same as Susannah. There would probably be some sort of family connection but quite what is baffling me.

Helig


Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 10:28:07 pm »
 ??? Me too. Start my further investigations today with luck.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2017, 02:21:54 pm »
You have probably investigated Jane  the sister of Susannah who was born 1833 in Llangystenin but I tried to find her on Ancestry in the Library.     
Although Census records were carried out from 1801 on wards the first one online is 1841 so I had a look at that.
Living at Maes in Llangystenin were Moses Jones  aged 45 and a quarry man. Also there were Robert aged 13,  Elias aged 11 and Jane aged 8.
There was no mention of Elinor Jones who may have died after 1833 and before 1841.    The death registers came into force in 1837 and I did find an Elinor Jones who died in the Conway Registration District and her death was recorded in the July to Sept 1837 quarter.
The actual death Registers for Llangystenin may be in the Conwy Archives and should confirm if this Elinor lived at Maes.
The 1851 Census shows the same 4 people still living at Maes.  Jane was 18 then and the Census records her "still at home"
In the 1861 Census a Jane Jones from Llangystenin aged 28 is a domestic servant and living at Bryn Y Gwynt  in the district of Bodnant Eglwysbach with Evan Jones a farmer and his wife and children
I couldn't find any trace of her in the 1871 Census though.

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2017, 11:04:14 am »
Following on from Hugo's find, I searched for Jane Jones and family in the later census returns. In the 1851 census the family are living in Maes, Llangystenin, Jane is shown as aged 18 and "Living at home". The others in the household include Moses, widower, age 57, Quarryman, Robert, son, age 24, Elias, age 21, both Quarrymen. In the next house there is a John Owens, age 29, Miner, born Llandudno. He is married and his wife is Susannah Owens, age 27, born Llangystenin. They have a son, John, age 1.

Helig.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 02:00:04 pm »
Helig,   I forgot to make a note of the properties nearby when I looked at the 1841 Census, have you got a note of the names of those properties as I would be interested to know where  Maes is or was.

Offline emma silk

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 07:28:19 pm »
Hi,
     I'm not sure if this helps but I thought I would write it anyway.
Rumours passed down from Elizabeth Jane's family, (Susannah's daughter) say that Uncle Will, Flint sold his land to Courtaulds factory. Also, in the 1930's or 40's two ladies used to come to stay with Elizabeth Jane from that direction and called her Aunty Liz but nobody knows who they are. Later in the 1950's or 60's Elizabeth Jane's daughter and granddaughter Bessie and Faith used to visit a lady of about 100 years old near Faith's home which was in Holywell, then Rhuddlan which are both in the direction of Flint, from all the rest of the family. Faith knew she was related but didn't know how.
     Hope this may help and I'll try digging a bit more.

Offline emma silk

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2017, 12:26:47 am »
Hi,
     Just an idea, could the Moran be Morgan. I found a marriage in the Caernarvonshire records, in 1858 between Jane Jones and William Morgan.

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2017, 06:48:42 am »
Dear Hugo, Helig and Emma Silk
Thank you VERY much for your investigations and sorry I haven't replied sooner.  Life has taken over here at the moment and didn't get much done last weekend.  This weekend however we have cyclone cook on the way plus Easter so there may be an opportunity to do some research... as long as I have internet, which we didn't yesterday.  I'll go through your findings, suggestions and comments and see what I have and where it leads.  I did manage a wee bit the other day but was based around the MORAN name now I have date of death for Jane but didn't really gey anywhere in the time I had.

Many thanks again and hope to sort things out a bit whist hunkering down for the storm.

Regards

Jom

Offline Helig

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2017, 11:28:37 am »
Hello Hugo,

The properties nearby in the 1851 census are as follows:

Preceding Maes on the census, Pen y Bont and Ffordd. The occupants were the household of Robert Williams in Pen y Bont and of Hugh Williams in Ffordd.

The next household after Moses Jones in Maes, is shown as living in Maes again, this time it is John Owens and family. The properties after that are Waen Fynydd, occupant Elinor Roberts and household, then Bwlch Glas, occupied by John Evans and family.

In the 1841 census, Moses Jones is living in Maes but the surrounding houses are different. These are:

preceding Maes, Garth, occupied by Robert Williams, Farmer, then Twullyog (not sure of spelling) occupied by Elias Roberts and family.

After Maes, Ty Gefn, occupied by Robert Roberts and family, Fron, occupied by Hugh Williams, Farmer, then Ffordd, occupied by Evan Williams, Farmer.

I take it that both Moses Jones and family and John Owens and family lived in Maes but they are shown as two separate households.

Helig.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2017, 12:54:05 pm »
Thanks very much for that Helig, it's been really helpful.    The Census records are done in some type of order but not necessarily the same order for each Census.
Some of the names I am familiar with and they have not changed over the years.    The word Maes means field in English so it's not unusual for the two properties to be so named.
Quite often you'll see the same name in a place such as for example Pen Y Bryn and it will have either Isaf or Uchaf after the name and it just donates lower or higher.
I'll look again for the exact location of Maes now that you have pointed me in the right direction.     $good$

Offline Hugo

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2017, 03:19:39 pm »
I've just had a look at a map  of the area in the late 1800's and although I can't pinpoint Maes from the map I have a rough idea where it was.
There were two Pen Y Bonts in the Parish of Llangystenin and I think that it was in Pabo or Marl ( now part of Llandudno Junction.)
Pen Y Bont and Waen Fynydd are still there so Maes was somewhere in between the two.   

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2017, 12:02:43 am »
Hello all
Just starting some investigating etc and in reply

1. Elinor wife of Moses JONES died 1836.  I have her burial record and was noted as being of Maes
2. Many thanks for the 1861 Census entry for Jane JONES.  Looks a likely candidate for Susannah's sister certainly.  I didn't have that.  It has led me to ...
3. 1871 census a William and Jane ROBERTS living in Egwlys Rho, a famer.  Residing with 2 neices (ROBERTS and an Ellin JONES).  No noted offspring of their own.  There are several Jane JONES and William ROBERTS marriages between 1861 and 1871 so no help there. 
1881 census suggests they might be at Penlau? Llangystenin ... IF it's the same couple (A farmer) but with 2 daughters Charlotte 18 and Mary Ann 16.  Not convinced it's the sane household.  There are only 1 or 2 Janes bn 1833/34 Llangystenin and that was my main checking point
4. EmmaSilk - I don't have a brother William for Susannah, do you. The only siblings I have are Robert, Edward, Elias and Jane.  Have you any others?  I do of course have a half brother (bn abt 1828) for John, Susannah's husband so would still be Elizabeth Jane's Uncle.  I only have record of him up to 1841 as a copper miner on the Morfa (Son of John and Alice OWEN who went on to own the Prince of Wales)

Will carry on the search ........

Offline jom

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2017, 02:35:25 am »
Hi EmmaSilk

I have just been looking at your ancestry tree and note you have a surname for Elinor (Ellinor) wife of Moses JONES.  How have you come by that and her previous marriage that you have listed to David MAURICE.  I have't found anything as yet to say who she was other than the wife of Moses!!!!!  Helpp please?????

Offline emma silk

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Re: Gravestone of Susannah (Jones) Owen Bn 1821
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2017, 02:58:44 pm »
     I couldn't find a local marriage for Moses but I found Elinor married to David Maurice in the Cearnarvonshire records 24th December, 1814. Then Elinor Maurice married to Moses in the Denbighshire records, 19th January, 1822 which would fit with Susannah's birth. I don.t know if they are correct as I haven't researched anymore. I'm not sure if I have a copy as I haven't got my papers with me. I used to be able to check all local records on genes reunited but for some reason that has stopped so I'm looking into why as it was really useful for baptisms, weddings and burials. I have Robert, Edward, Elias and Jane as Susannah's brothers and sisters. I thought this Jane might be married to William Moran which would make sense why it's on the head stone. I assume William Moran will be buried Flint way. The only wedding I could find in Llangwstennin was between Jane and William Morgan on 26th March, 1858 but other people have her married to somebody else so again not sure. I found a baptism for Moses 19th April, 1794 and one for an older brother Moses who died as a baby. I also found burial records for them both, 28th April, 1793 and 5th March, 1858. I think Elinor died in1836 which would explain her not on the 1841 census records. When I get back to my papers I'll have a look and then try and post them on here. Hope this helps xx