Author Topic: Murder Most Foul....  (Read 58245 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2011, 11:32:19 am »
Rutherford had a military career, and many such people keep a firearm as a souvenir (or for sentimental reasons) after they are discharged.

The three latter victims could have run away to other levels in fear after the first gunshots, maybe they tried to hide realising they couldn't reach the door to get outside?

It sounds like his 'fidgetty' nature and other nervous habits made him the type of guy who would let things build up (fester if you like) until it got the better of him.
Yes, it was premeditated in the sense that he was going to do SOMETHING dramatic,  then a few gins later, it all reached a crescendo.

Good point Dave, He may well have been fixated with the Simcox woman, but never told a soul.... until that day,  then all witnesses and the scene had to be eradicated.

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Pendragon

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2011, 11:36:32 am »
There was the story of the husband kiled with  a blow to the head with a hammer and left rolled up in a carpet in a walled up basement for 20yrs or more. The body was found when Jeff Taxi bought the building and located the walled up cellar.  No one could understand why the Wife refused to move from Castle Hall despite being offered a council house for herself and her children. She always maintained that her husband had just up and left after an argument. Depending on who you talk to the guy deserved it.
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley


Offline Suey

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 09:47:56 pm »
Murders are something that are fairly infrequent in the local area (fortunately), however, there have been several high profile cases...and this is one from 1976 that I have always found fascinating.......I've often wondered what made Neil Rutherford snap that fateful evening.


"The night five died in quiet hotel"


A Penmaenmawr man stumbled upon the shooting that left five people dead at the Red Gables hotel on Friday 24th September 1976.

Just before 6pm, Mr. Will Williams, 41, arrived home to find a woman waving her arms in the road. Near her a man lay bleeding. Mr. Williams of St. Johns Park ran over to help the man. Then he smelled smoke and found the hotel was on fire. He told neighbours to phone the emergency services.

“I ran over and took the man's pulse. It was very weak. He had blood all over his stomach and on his nose. I sent for blankets to keep him warm...He didn't say anything to me and then his pulse stopped. The woman who found him said that he had told her he had been shot. She was in a right state”.

Then Mr. Williams smelled smoke and he and other neighbours ran through the gardens.

“The doors were closed so we hammered on them and shouted 'anybody there?'. There was no answer and I didn't want to open the doors because I have seen what draught does to a fire.”

Meanwhile, the fire service had been called by a woman in St. John's Park  and a doctor who arrived at the scene pronounced the man dead.

It was getting dark and raining when firemen fighting the blaze found two men and two women dead inside the hotel. All had gunshot injuries.

Those who died in the incident were hotel owner, Mrs Linda Simcox (59), her daughter and son-in-law Lorna(24) and Alistair McIntyre(33), a long-standing family friend, Mr. John Gore Green (55), of Bay City, Texas, and the hotel's former gardener, Mr. Neil Rutherford (54).

Mr. Green was found in a downstairs kitchen and Mrs. McIntyre was in an upstairs bedroom. Mrs Simcox and Mr. Rutherford were lying dead in the lounge. Beside them was a automatic pistol. Detectives are working on the theory that Mr. Rutherford shot the four people before turning the gun on himself.

Detectives, fire officers and forensic scientists were at the hotel early on Saturday looking for clues to help them solve the mystery. Several items, including handbags and notebooks, were removed for examination. The hotel interior was badly damaged by the fire and police believe the fire was started in two separate parts of the building.

The man found dying in the road was identified as Mr. McIntyre. He is believed to have escaped from the hotel and crawled through the gardens to the road to call for help. He tore off his pullover as he made his way through the garden.

Lorna and Alistair McIntyre were living at the hotel and Mr Gore Green was the only guest.

Curious villagers who went to the scene on Saturday said the whole town had been shocked. Several spoke of Mr. Rutherford, known locally as 'the commander'. He  was a  short, stocky middle aged man, that had been working at the hotel as a gardener and handyman for eighteen months. They had heard that Mr. Rutherford had left the hotel a fortnight ago but he was seen in Penmaenmawr on Friday afternoon before the deaths.

He was known in most of the pubs in Penmaenmawr, his 'local' was the Alexandra, where he went about four times a week. The landlord,  Elwyn Frogatt, said the commander was a quiet man who always drank alone.

“He was a proud gardener and used to bring us tomatoes. I never had any trouble with him. He used to come in quiet times and drink halves of Guinness.”

The landlord of the Bron Eyri hotel, Brian Jones,  said that the commander struck him as a very fidgety man.

“He would never sit down. He used to pace up and down the room and look out of the window. He would just have half a pint of Guinness and then go. He never stayed longer than half an hour. When we heard about all this on Friday night, no-one could believe it”.

The commander was in the Mountain View hotel on Friday afternoon, shortly before the murders. The landlord, Mr E. Kemish, said that he seemed his normal self.

“He was on his own and pacing up and down like he normally did. He used to come in about once a week for a drink. On Friday he had a glass of Guinness and a couple of gins.

Regulars at the pubs said the commander was always on his own and rarely struck up a conversation.

Neil Rutherford was the son of Richard Perry Rutherford, a shipbuilder, and was born on the 15th May 1922 . He was married on the 7th August 1948  to Joan Margery Colville-Hyde (born 05.05.1923) but the marriage was dissolved on the 2nd May 1972. They had one daughter.  He had a distinguished record of service in the Navy, including two DSCs. He retired from the Navy in 1958, following a stint at  the Underwater Weapons Material Department (Bath) . He had been working at the Red Gables hotel since April 1975 as a gardener and general handyman.

© North Wales Weekly News 1976

The Red Gables Hotel reopened after the murders, but the bypassing of the town by the A55 led to its closure about 10 years ago. It remains derelict today:



Re Red Gables. There is still family and descendants living locally and are still upset about the Red Gables. I have often asked a relative of mine - who is connected to the family, what did happen and will the truth ever come to light. Can you imagine - coming home from the forces to find your sister, and your mum murdered.  :)

Offline Sara

  • Member
  • Posts: 92
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 11:08:49 pm »
My Nain's cousin was shot and killed in the Groes in Conwy. Joan Reay (cousin) was shot by Dr John Reay, her husband, who also shot John Haden who was with her in the Groes. Dr Reay then committed suicide at Sychnant Pass.
I have a newspaper clipping somewhere with more detail.

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 11:20:34 pm »
Sounds fascinating Sara, what year was this?

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Sara

  • Member
  • Posts: 92
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2011, 02:26:41 pm »
I think it was in the 1940's. It's been said that the wall(s) still have bullet holes in them. I don't know if this is true or not. I don't know how many shots Dr Reay fired.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2011, 05:28:40 pm »
I'm pretty sure the Groes murders are documented in the North Wales Murder Casebook. I did have a copy somewhere, not quite sure where though.  :roll:

Offline Trojan

  • Member
  • Posts: 3327
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2011, 02:22:41 am »
Can you imagine - coming home from the forces to find your sister, and your mum murdered.  :)

Errr....yes, but I wouldn't insert a happy smiley.  ?{}?

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 07:23:57 pm »
Err, yeah... I thought that was a bit odd.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 05:51:37 pm »
My Nain's cousin was shot and killed in the Groes in Conwy. Joan Reay (cousin) was shot by Dr John Reay, her husband, who also shot John Haden who was with her in the Groes. Dr Reay then committed suicide at Sychnant Pass.
I have a newspaper clipping somewhere with more detail.
It was the 27th August 1942. Dr Reay (who had his Practice at Rindleford, Queens Road, Craig Y Don) believed (incorrectly) that his estranged wife had been having an affair with Mr. Haden and was going to ask him for a Divorce. After shooting them both with a shotgun in the Darts Room of the Groes Inn, he drove to the top of Sychnant pass where he took an overdose of pills and his body was found in the car by a local Postman the next morning.

Groes Inn today:

Adventures in the Conwy Valley by davidrobertsphotography, on Flickr

Offline Sara

  • Member
  • Posts: 92
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2011, 08:22:19 pm »
Thanks for that Dave, never knew the date.

Offline Trojan

  • Member
  • Posts: 3327
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2011, 11:41:58 pm »
I remember the Sophie Hook murder, which was very sad indeed.  :'(

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1996/07/18/BSP180796036/?s=Llandudno&st=0&pn=1


Offline Trojan

  • Member
  • Posts: 3327
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2011, 11:47:25 pm »
The murder of Denise Reynolds was terrible.  :'(

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1992/01/01/BSP010192010/?s=Llandudno&st=0&pn=2

I remember the two lads that died in the Mini from school. One was called "Bobby" as I recall.  :'(

Offline SDQ

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 990
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2011, 01:59:09 am »
I remember the Sophie Hook murder too, Howard Hughes travelled on my bus a few times with his Rottweiler and I can honestly say I wasn't shocked when he was revealed as her killer as there was always something not quite right with his demeanour.
I remember Bobby from school as he was in the same year as me, a nice lad who definitely didn't deserve his fate, the epitome of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why the other guy couldn't have just driven into a wall or off a cliff instead of snuffing out innocent lads minding their own business is beyond me!
Valar Morghulis

Offline Haulfre

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Murder Most Foul....
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2011, 12:12:41 am »
I remember the Red Gables murder happening, and the sense of shock it caused.  There was a murder on Lloyd street Llandudno in the 1970's when a lodger murdered  his landlady, I remember walking home from school not long after it happened  wondering what all the police activity was about.
Yes that was at Breton court. A family member of mine knew the poor landlady.