Author Topic: Jones family of LLandudno  (Read 35709 times)

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Offline Cambrian

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2017, 10:36:56 pm »
Hugo

Most if not all of the properties are mentioned in Ken Dibble's books on Penrhynside.  Also I think I have mentioned before on TTF that the National Library of Scotland's website provides free access to Ordnance Survey Maps of GB free of charge.  These cover late 19th Cent to the mid 1950s. 

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2017, 10:47:08 pm »
I think that someone has sent Mull copies of some of the pages from that book which is a great read for anyone interested in that area.  Strangely though that Mr Roberts I spoke to who lives next door to Tyn Y Wal  had never lived in the house that was mentioned in a book.   I don't know if he meant Ken Dibble's book or the one by the other author.

That info about the O/S maps is interesting and there are also maps in British History on line


Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2017, 12:18:44 am »
Hey, wondering what information off of a birth certificate for Pierce Jones are you looking for?
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2017, 01:18:18 am »
I have done everything I could think of to attach this darn birth certificate through my phone! It is an actual certified copy I found on someone elses tree on Ancestry. I had left the info on the blog before, maybe it will help.  I will try to attach when I get home, unfortunately still at work  selling drugs, legally. Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline mull

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2017, 10:51:19 am »
Penrhynside Books by Kenneth Dribble. Go back to March 21 2014 , Reply nos 6,7,8,9,10,14,17,21.

JOM from New Zealand kindly sent put photocopies of pages from Penrhynside Part 2 by Ken Dibble. If you go to the above reply nos you can view them there.

Hope this helps.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2017, 11:00:24 am »
I have done everything I could think of to attach this darn birth certificate through my phone! It is an actual certified copy I found on someone elses tree on Ancestry. I had left the info on the blog before, maybe it will help.  I will try to attach when I get home, unfortunately still at work  selling drugs, legally. Chad

What we are looking for Chad is some conclusive evidence to link Elizabeth Anne to John Jones.   What we know for certain is that Elizabeth was born in Llanbedr Y Cennin.  John Jones was born somewhere in the Parish of Llangystennin.
If you have the Birth Certificate then we would like to know all the information on it such as date of birth,  her full maiden name,  parents names and where they lived.

If you have all of it or even some of it then it will be a big help.

Offline Helig

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2017, 02:27:12 pm »
Hello ckirkrph and Hugo,

I have checked both the Boards and cannot find a birth certificate for Pierce Jones on either of them. In the event you have this, please post the information it contains as mother's maiden name, their residence at time of his birth, father's occupation and any other information that may help us.

Helig.

Offline Helig

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2017, 03:08:28 pm »
I think we can rule out the marriage we have for John Jones, son o fEvan Jones, Farmer. The reason for this is that I have found them on the 1841 census and it shows:

Tyn Rhyn, Llangystennin.

Evan Jones, age 60, Farmer,  born in same county.
Elizabeth Jones, age 60, born in same county.
John Jones, age 20, born in same county.
Jane Jones, age 20, F.S., born in same county.

Even allowing for the rounding down/up for the age of John, he was born too late for our person if we use the age he gives in the census returns.

There is an extract of what purports to be a death certificate for him on Ancestry. This shows he died age 47, of Gastro Enteric Fever. Informant Robert Jones, of Bryn y Gwynt, Eglwys Rhos.

The same Family Tree has a report of the birth certificate for Pierce Jones. It shows he was born on 3 November 1850, abode: Tan y Wal. Father: John Jones, labourer. Mother Elizabeth Jones formerly Williams. Mother marked information with her x mark.

The mystery continues....

Helig





Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2017, 06:26:41 pm »
It's a shame that we can rule out John Jones from Tyn Rhyn  Llangystennin because one of our forum members, Jane is related to them  through her Roberts family.
There must be a link there somehow though if the same family tree has a birth certificate for Pierce Jones.

I was at the Conwy Archives today and had a look at the Marriage Registers of Llanbedr Y Cennin from 1813 to 1850 and there is no trace there of a marriage between John and Elizabeth so they must have got married elsewhere, but where exactly?

Let's see what Chad comes up with, with that Birth Certificate

 

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2017, 01:26:39 am »
Hey guys! I hate technology these days, so I will try to put everything I see. It might be the same mentioned above but just in case, here goes!!... Number 238.
  1850 birth in the counties of Caernarvon and Denbigh.  November 3rd, 1850 Tanwal Egliayrhos (spelling?).  Name: Pierce. Sex: boy. Name of father:  John Jones. Name of Mother Elizabeth Jones, (formerly Williams)  Occupation of father: Labor. Then the mark of Elizabeth Jones, registered November 22nd 1850. I think that is everything, sorry but I can't read the one name, hopefully y'all will recognize it. Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2017, 01:37:00 am »
Might say at very top Crenddyd or Caerddyd as registration district. Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2017, 09:24:24 am »
Thanks for that info Chad, it gives a better picture of what we need to look for in our search.   The word is Eglwysrhos that you weren't sure of.

That Registration District at a guess may be Creuddyn  the other word looks like the Welsh name for Cardiff ( Caerdydd) so it's not likely to be that.    Cambrian knows a lot about these things and may be able to confirm it.
I thought that Conwy was the Registration District for that area but again Cambrian may know that too.

Offline Helig

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2017, 11:28:00 am »
It appears that John Jones may have lived at Tan y Wal when he married. Where would the parish church have been for a marriage there c1835-1840? I am working on the most accurate information we have for his year of birth, the age of 47 in 1861 (death certificate and census shows this for him in that year). That puts his year of birth as 1814, so it would seem likely he married about 1835ish.

It could be they married in the bride's parish but Hugo has searched this and found nothing there.

Hugo, do you have any idea where Bryn y Gwynt is? The address given for Robert Jones on the death certificate of John Jones shows this place. I presume Robert Jones would have had a close relationship to John Jones, so this could give us a lead.

Helig.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2017, 01:37:21 pm »
Helig,   the parish Church for Tan Y Wal is St Hilary's Church at Llanrhos   (Eglwysrhos).    Normally the marriage would be in the Bride's Parish but I have searched through the Church records for Llanbedr Y Cennin and the Parish records of Caerhum but could find no trace of the marriage.      It may be that Elizabeth left home and lived and worked in another Parish which I would imagine is local to this area.

Now the Death Certificate shows that he died at the age of 47 in 1861, yet the Headstone on his grave said that he died in 1861 at the age of 50 so which one is correct?      It's a mystery Helig and I don't know the answer, well not yet anyway.
Hypothetically speaking if John Jones was born in 1814 he would have been about 21 if he got married in 1835 but if he got married in 1844 like the John Jones I found in that Marriage Certificate then he would have been about 30.
Now in those days getting married at the age of about 30 was not unusual so we still can't rule that one out.   Especially as you say there is a link to Pierce Jones that you found on that family tree.

Now Tan Y Wal is in Bryn Gwynt Lane and that is where I think John died and that address is also on his headstone.  As for Robert Jones he is probably related but I don't know what the relationship was.

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2017, 02:57:09 pm »
Hugo

Yes I think I can help with "Creuddyn".

Creuddyn Sub-District was part of the Conway Registration District from 1837 until 1st April 1902.  There seems to have been a change in the Poor Law areas at that time - which were themselves complicated as they straddled the then Denbighshire/Caernarvonshire border.  Consequently, Llanrhos Civil Parish was transferred to the Conway Sub-District and the remainder of the Creuddyn Sub-District was divided as follows:

To Llandudno Sub-District: Civil Parishes of Eglwysrhos; Llandudno; Llangwstennin and Penrhyn.

To Colwyn Bay Sub-District: Civil Parishes of Eirias, Llysfaen; Llandrillo yn Rhos; Llanelian yn Rhos and Llansantffraid Glan Conway.

So given the year of 1850, the Sub-District would have been Creuddyn.

I must confess I am not entirely sure of the individual extent of the civil parishes of Eglwysrhos and Llanrhos.  I had thought they were one and the same! The Civil Parish of Penrhyn was created in 1894 so possibly that area was largely Eglwysrhos and the Llanrhos/Deganwy area was Llanrhos.