Author Topic: Jones family of LLandudno  (Read 35691 times)

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Offline Helig

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 11:27:38 am »
I have been trying to solve a few of the queries on Pierce Jones. I found a tree on Ancestry which has details of his birth certificate entries. The transcript reads that he was born 3 November 1850, abode: Tan Wal Eglwys Rhos, father's name was John Jones, occupation labourer, mother's name was Elizabeth Jones, formerly Williams. Abode at time of birth was Tan Wal.

There is also a copy of the marriage certificate as follows: 1 October 1874, Sion Chapel, Conwy. Pierce Jones, Bachelor, Plasterer, age 23, of Ochre y Penrhyn, Eglwys Rhos, father John Jones, Labourer. Jane Anne Williams, Spinster, age 24, Domestic Servant, of Mostyn Crescent, Llandudno, father John Williams, occupation Labourer. Witnesses were: William Jones and Mary McManus. Both Pierce Jones and Jane Williams made their mark on the certificate.

Pierce's death certificate is also shown and this reads: Pierce Jones age 71, cause of death (1) Bronchial Plasterer; (2) Pneumonia. Present at death: John Jones of 25 King's Road, Llandudno. This is as shown but the entry looks strange in view of the first cause of death given.

Pierce had a brother, William Jones born c1853. He is with John Jones and family on the 1861 census and this shows he was born Eglwys Rhos. The family are living at Tan y Wal. William Jones is living as a Lodger with Pierce Jones and family in the 1881 census. He is shown as a Tailor by occupation. They are living at "Cottage back of Parade Hotel".

I don't think Pierce married twice and cannot find any evidence for this. I suspect that someone may have an incorrect tree on Ancestry as this is the only source which shows he married twice.

Helig.






Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 02:45:32 pm »
Certain things I've found match in with Helig's findings and I'm inclined to agree with what he has said about Pierce only marrying once.
Pierce did have a son also called Pierce so could this have caused the confusion?

I've only a couple of things to add to Helig's posting and it's only to add clarification in case names appear different in Census and other records:-
Ochre Y Penrhyn is just the Welsh name for Penrhynside so Pierce was born in Tan Y Wal,    Penrhynside which was then in the Parish of Eglwysrhos
In the 1861 Census Pirce was living at "Cottage back of Parade Hotel"  and the street where the cottage was is called Vadre Lane.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 08:06:30 pm »
Helig,  just another add on to what you have found about Jane Anne Williams.  Mostyn Crescent is a block of hotels on the sea front in Llandudno so Jane must have been living and working in one of those hotels when she got married.

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 12:59:42 am »
Hey there. I have to admit it, I did find some of the info of a 2nd marriage via another person's tree, and upon really going through each census see they had mixed 2 different families! Going census by census, I did see where he had a brother William, which throws another wrench into things as at least the one picture does say William "tidi" Jones. Possibly this picture came from one of the cousins and their "tidi" was Pierce's brother William? I do have some pictures of what is labeled as Annie Maria's father, so I am curious if this gentleman looks like your Pierce or not. The odd thing is how much the pic labeled as Annie Maria's father, and William "tidi" look like the same gentlemen, but perhaps the brothers just look a lot alike right!!??  Any luck on those pictures of Pierce on that end, I have been trying to upload mine to the site but keep getting told the file is too large etc.. If you would like, send me your email address and I wil send them directly to you. Mine is kirk18@cox.net. I would be happy to send all I have so you can take a look. I have birth certificates/death certs for some, all of which I will send. Let me know, and thanks for the help!!  Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 10:32:56 pm »
Chad,  I was reading your original posting and you mentioned searching for the grave of Annie Maria in that posting.    In the Conwy Archives they have Burial Indexes for most Cemeteries in Conwy County.     These indexes list all the graves with headstones in the Church cemeteries and also the inscriptions on them.
The people are listed alphabetically in the index as are the addresses of the deceased and the location of the graves are listed too.
If they are in the book then they are very easy to find but as far as I'm aware they are not online.

Offline Helig

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2016, 10:52:38 am »
Hugo, re the burial of Annie Maria, she died in 1909 in Acock's Green which is in Solihull Registration District. I think a post on Roots Chat might be worthwhile as this area is outside the scope of this forum. See ckirkph's post of 7 December for full details.

Helig.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2016, 12:00:48 pm »
Thanks Helig for pointing that out, it's probable that she was buried in Solihull but I have come across instances where the person has been buried in the Parish where they were born.
In any case I'll have a look in the Conwy Archives Burial Indexes. Kirk is not a Welsh name and isn't common either so it'll only take me a minute to find that out.
I need to look in the Burial Indexes anyway so it's not putting me to any trouble. 

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2016, 07:51:10 pm »
Hey, I really appreciate everybody's help along the way. I have searched several parish records etc but like you said not too many available on line. It would be a great help of you do get the chance to look. I am trying to find out now more about what happened to Alfred after Annie Maria died, Apparently he remarried pretty quickly after the boys were sent to Halifax. Seems sorta wrong these days, but not uncommon then, but I think it would be interesting to meet that whole side of the family that we never knew. I meant to as Mull too, if he remembered his gram ever mentioning her siblings,  specifically Annie Maria? She must of had it pretty rough losing so many siblings,  I know that was more common then, but living in such close quarters they must have been pretty close. Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2016, 04:24:15 pm »
Chad, I've just copied what I've found today for your info but could find no trace in the Burial Indexes here for Annie Marie Kirk

I went to the Conwy Archives today and had a look through a number of Burial indexes and found the graves for Pierce & Jane Jones and also for his father John and Elizabeth his wife.    I found them in the graveyard of Capel Einion which is the Baptist Cemetery in Ffordd Wiga Glanwydden.       I have got the locations of the graves in the Cemetery but I won't go there to take any photos until I get my protective clothes on as it's the worst Cemetery I've ever seen, it's like a jungle!     However now that I've seen part of Llandegfan Cemetery I'd describe that as the worst.

Anyway this is the information I have found from the Burial Indexes;-
Plot A 030 and written in English
In loving memory of Jane Jones, the beloved daughter of Pierce and Jane Jones  Tan Y Wal who died Sept 7th 1881 aged 14 months
                                                   Also
Joseph Wm Jones who died September 29th 1889 aged 13 months
                                                   Also
Jane Ann Jones beloved wife of the said Pierce Jones who died October 6th 1915 aged 66 years
They are not dead but only ..... rest
                                                  Also



Pierce Jones died April 23rd 1922 aged 71 years    at rest

Further into the Cemetery at Grave A 061 is the grave for Pierce's parents John and Elizabeth and their inscription is in Welsh and the translation into English is :-

In memory of John Jones Tan Y Wal Penrhynside who died September 24th 1861 aged 50 years
                                       Also
Elizabeth Jones his wife who died June 27th 1895 aged 85 years

I then had a look at the Baptism records for Llangystennin but there were 2 John Jones Baptised in 1817 and one in 1816 so I was not able to establish exactly your relative.    A date of birth may be needed in this case

Offline ckirkrph

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2016, 01:17:28 am »
Hey there! Wow! I can not thank you enough for all your efforts! Be careful in that cemetery please, if you do make it, sad it has apparently gotten so overgrown. I will look into that birthdate you mentioned, again thanks so much. I wonder then if Annie Marie was buried in Solihull then, I really did think she might have ended up with her folks/ siblings having died so young (28) but perhaps financial reasons made it impossible to move her too far. I will keep checking on things too. Interestingly, yesterday 12-12-2016 was 116 years to the date that Alfred Kirk and Annie Maria were married, I thought about them all day long. I was on the telephone with another relative whom I found only through Ancestry research whose father was one of Annie Maria's sons, John Reginald Archibald Kirk. I was telling him about Mull, and that his gram was Grace Ellen, we had the most interesting talk. Oh how we wish we would have had the opportunity to ask these folks some questions before they were gone! Dale Kirk, the gentlemen I was speaking of was also going to try to gather more info on his aunt Grace Ellen. The problem is when these boys came here, they were rather upset with their father (Alfred). I am not sure if Alfred willingly gave them up, or if the church might have intervened and had them sent to Halifax, but they ended up in I believe one of the Middlemore Homes in Birmingham. There did seem to be animosity.  They lost all communication with him, therefore you have Dale here whose father knew the Jones family early on, but then no communication in adult life. People can be so fickle. Anyhow, thanks SO much again for your help. If there are any places you think I should try to email or contact however please just send me the names, I feel terrible having you blazing trails through jungle like cemeteries on my account! I have started to post some pics that you guys may have seen already, but I was able to post them directly to this blogs website so Mull, take a look and I will keep sending them as I can. They are under gallery pics of people. Chad
Chad M. Kirk R.Ph

Offline mull

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2016, 11:49:45 am »
Just to see if I can scan and add photos.

Top photo is taken in 1946 left Grace Ellen Jones (Nain) liitle Mull and Uncle Hugh Hughes, Cobbler in porch of Tan y Wal

Bottom photo Tan y Wal 1946

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2016, 02:22:44 pm »
Nice photos Mull and it's good to be able to put a face to the names we have heard on here.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2016, 02:37:56 pm »
Chad,  all being well I'm going to go to the Cemetery on Friday to take some photos for you and Mull.    I have got a plan of the graveyard and have been inside the jungle a few times so I'll be well prepared.
As regards your G G Grandfather I was unable to identify him from the Baptism records but I've got another idea how to trace him.

It all depends on whether the Archives have the particular Church records but if they have  the Marriage Register then that will help to confirm   he is your relative.
There were 3 potential John Jones' in the Baptism record and one of those is an ancestor of someone else on the forum but I'll wait until I find out more before saying anything else.

The Archives will be closed from 22nd Dec 2016 until 3rd Jan 2017 so I'll have to see what I can do before then

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2016, 01:52:10 pm »
Yesterday I enjoyed a delicious lunch in the Queens Hotel in Glanwydden and today I was back in the village but having a look around the graveyard!      I passed the Queens Head again and had a look at Capel Ainon which is the old Welsh Bapist Chapel that the Jones family must have attended when they were living in Penrhynside.   Sadly the building has been closed for many years and is in a serious state of decline.
Anyway I parked my car in the lane and walked up to the Cemetery, there are two parts to it, the old and the new but sadly the old part is in a serious mess and the last real clean up there was over 30 years ago.
I found Pierce and Jane's grave quite easily even though it was covered in Ivy and the headstone looked like it was made of a buff coloured sandstone.  The inscription was difficult to read but thankfully years ago some group made a detailed note of what was written on all the headstones.   I tried to clear the headstone as best as I could and the photo shows what it looks like now.
John and Elizabeth's grave wasn't too far away and as I had the plan of the graves I also knew where to look for it.    Their headstone was in the more traditional Welsh slate and the inscription on it was very clear.   A tree had grown by the headstone and although I tidied up the grave I couldn't remove the stump but I've taken a close up of the headstone so that you know that it is that of your relative.
One good thing I saw was that someone had started to clear the Cemetery and it did look better than when I was last there.
I've included a photo of the new part of the Cemetery and Penrhynside is in the background, probably about 2 miles away.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Jones family of LLandudno
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2016, 01:56:09 pm »
Glanwydden Cemetery