Author Topic: International politics  (Read 86110 times)

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Offline born2run

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Re: International politics
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2017, 10:55:05 am »
Amazingly his support is and continues to be massive. Even in this country, he doesn't have charisma, he is not pleasant to look at (Two reasons often cited for Blair's success) so it must be his policies that all these people are supporting and THAT is the thing that is truly terrifying. Donald Trump is just one person on his own he is nothing. Hitler was just one person on his own he was nothing. However they both have millions of 'oridnary' people supporting them and support for the far right continues to rise in europe.

Offline DaveR

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Re: International politics
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2017, 11:01:25 am »
Its quite simple, people are sick of career politicians and their lies. If anyone other than Clinton had been running against Trump, then I dont believe he would have won. Clinton typified the career politician with excuses for everything that even many Democrats hated.


Offline Ian

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Re: International politics
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2017, 03:38:01 pm »
A Psychiatrist pal suggested the following: watch and listen to Trump next time he's on the news and, instead of thinking of him as a demented Human, think of him as a Robot. I've not tried it, yet, but I'd be interested to hear what others think if they do.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Hugo

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Re: International politics
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2017, 03:52:14 pm »
25 years ago,  Donald Trump on the Oprah Show saying what will happen. 
This is very interesting.   It is just a short video
Do not forget that this interview was 25 years ago!
VIDEO recently uncovered a Trump interview on the Oprah Show from over 25 Years Ago. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=MOKi5YeNtRI




Offline Fester

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Re: International politics
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2017, 06:19:12 pm »
President Trump angrily promised a new Executive Order to deal with his 7 country travel ban, he said it would be Monday or Tuesday latest.
Wednesday has passed by, and nothing from Trump other than vicious tweets against his own security services.
It seems like nothing is getting done by this 'all change', energetic president.
What a joke he's turning out to be.
Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: International politics
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2017, 06:24:32 pm »
It would be a joke Fester if it wasn't so serious.    He hasn't got a clue about politics, I bet the Russians and others can't believe their luck.

Offline Ian

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Re: International politics
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2017, 06:36:29 pm »
Maybe my pal is right? He could be an alien...  WWW WWW WWW WWW

On a more serious note a lot of evidence is emerging that Hitler was far from the evil demagogue we've all thought. What's emerging is starting to suggest he was used by those around him - who certainly were evil. He was an excellent orator, but it seems it probably ended there. He was indolent - rarely rose  before lunchtime and spent most of the day playing with his dogs and then watching films. But because he wasn't that bright the nasty bunch around him used him for their own ends. Towards the end he was, apparently, drugged up all the time.

The reason that is worth knowing is that it's uncannily like what's now happening in the US - and elsewhere.  Trump is far from bright, but he's a resonable orator.  Those around him with their hands on the levers of power, however, might well be cut from different cloth.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 10:53:41 am by Ian »
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Bosun

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Re: International politics
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2017, 10:03:59 am »
Ian, I take that you meant ' far from the evil demagogue'...

Is your post a suggestion of 'alternative history'? Because like 'alternative truths', it doesn't work. 

Hitler went from a penniless, virtually vagrant, angry youth who joined a political party of 60 to the despotic leader of Germany, writing Mien Kamf along the way (partly whilst in prison) espousing his rabid theories and taking Germany from a war ravaged country to the most powerful in Europe in less than a decade, rousing the German people with maniacal speeches. You do not achieve that without a great deal of terrible ability. He was ruthless and certainly evil, besides creating and controlling a regime that killed 11 million people including 6 million Jews, he enjoyed watching the films of the executions of those he ordered to be murdered. In the final two years of WW2 as Germany fell, so did Hitler's mental and physical state. Goebbels, Goering, and Hess etc. were a pretty rancid bunch of hangers-on to Hitler's coat-tails.   

Apart from megalomania, lies and arrogance, common enough human traits, I don't see a connection with Trump; Trump was born into a wealthy family, inherited the family business and is a pretty poor orator and those around him come and go at his whim. And, the political process to remove him is in place should it ever be needed - or is not rescinded...........,.   
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline Ian

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Re: International politics
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2017, 11:16:46 am »
No, I'm not attempting to rewrite history, Boson. The parallel with Trump, I suspect, lies in the ineptness which seems to have characterised Hitler's 'leadership' strategies.

All the detailed research into Hitler's rise and rule is tending towards an image of  - as you say - a "penniless, virtually vagrant, angry youth", but whose gift for oratory far exceeded his ability in virtually every other arena. Through the gift he was able to persuade, charm, and incite (see the similarities?) but once he'd become the total ruler of Germany those who'd gone along for the ride started to vie with each for his favour. They were also a manipulative, poisonous bunch and possibly much worse, in fact, than Hitler, but they lacked the direct "appeal to the common man" which characterised Hitler, (again, similarities.  Trump supporters almost seem mesmerised when asked why they voted for him.).

But the detailed research is uncovering some truly horrific aspects of the culture over which he presided. For a start Hitler would assign the same jobs to two or more people, who then competed to try to win his approbation in the most heinous ways imaginable. He didn't stay on top of things, preferring to swan around in the limelight while his subordinates fought amongst themselves. He created four offices for himself, instead of one, so it was never clear what was happening. The appalling policy of eliminating the disabled was one consequence of this rampant mismanagement. A letter arrived at one of his offices from a father asking permission to allow his severely disabled baby to die. This was put to Hitler by a subordinate, but only as a passing comment.  When Hitler seemed to agree, it became policy and extended to all disabled children, where the murders were carried out by the staff on what amounted to a whim.

Hitler's main thrust was anti-semitic. He blamed the Jews for everything, and an often quoted comment that out of 4200 lawyers in Berlin, almost 3700 were Jewish forgot to note that many professions were in fact closed to Jewish citizens.

So yes; the result of Hitler's dominance was pure evil but although I don't doubt he was an unhinged and possibly psychotic individual I suspect a lot of what happened was more because of his subordinates, who saw his lack of effective management and simply took advantage of Hitler's incompetence. I don't see Trump as competent but I do see a lot of hangers-on, and if the management is poor Hitler's rule shows what can happen.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Bosun

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Re: International politics
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2017, 12:18:13 pm »
I doubt if anyone can argue with your comment 'The parallel with Trump, I suspect, lies in the ineptness which seems to have characterised Hitler's 'leadership' strategies.' but I am at a total loss (note the 'I', because although just because I don't understand, many million Americans actually did fall for his charms and vote for him) to understand why anyone could think that Trump actually has the ability to pursuade, charm and incite; to me he is simply a vain, arrogant megalomaniac who inherited the family firm and bullied his way through life treading on people and contributing nothing to society, not even  his taxes. He is quickly proving to be a complete disaster for the USA; and the USA has worldwide influence; his arrogance and ineptitude has already rattled the Middle East and his latest comments make it unimaginable as to what is to come.

However, I tend to agree with your explained hypothesis about subordinates and acolytes, although Churchill had the same qualities you cite - the ability to persuade, charm and incite, however as Prime Minister during the war he had decent thinking subordinates, for example, Eden, Atlee and Butler, and CIGS Brooke, who kerbed his worse excesses. 

One comment of Churchill's that I have always remembered is "The British form of Government is the worst in the world - except for any other". Hopefully it will remain so, although I have my doubts regarding the future of the House of Lords.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline hollins

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Re: International politics
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2017, 09:26:13 am »
This is a first, Hollins posting in the politics section!

I heard an interview on the BBC news the other day with I think a Norwegian citizen.
He said he was more worried about Trump than Putin because he thought that Putin was a controlled maniac but that Trump was an uncontrolled maniac.

Not a good prospect wondering what those two will get up to.

Offline Fester

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Re: International politics
« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2017, 11:13:06 pm »
The very definition of....
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Fester

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Re: International politics
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2017, 02:28:45 pm »
Mr Trump, in his latest Tweet, has labelled the media 'the enemy of the people'
This conjures up comparisons with the words used by some of the most dangerous dictators the world has ever seen.
See here...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39015559
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Fester

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Re: International politics
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2017, 06:40:52 pm »
Mr Trump, apart from embarrassing himself with his comments about a non existent Terror outrage in Sweden, has been strangely quiet again.
In effect he's achieved precisely NOTHING since his inauguration.
If this 'force for change' falls short in his promises, then there really is no hope for beleaguered voters who were clamouring for real change.

Along with Brexit, it reminds me of the old axiom, 'When everything changes, everything just remains the same'
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Fester

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Re: International politics
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2017, 12:23:10 am »
I used to have a boss, and for 12 years he ranted and raved, shouted at weaker staff and women.  He used to demand the most outlandish projects got done, using up loads of resource and had his lackeys who did his bidding and supported him for fear of not being 'in' with him.  His vindictiveness and unreasonable behaviour seemed to know no bounds.  His name was Adrian, but the parallels with Donald Trump have recently become apparent to me.  I had never seen his like.
Then,  one particular day, he demanded that my colleagues and I set about some horrible, political project... with a ridiculous deadline, that seemed to add zero value to our company.  The stress it created was off the scale.
A very wise comment was made by a colleague of mine. He left the office, and said 'just forget it and go home.....because when did anyone ever do what Adrian demanded?'

That comment was such a powerful phrase, because it cleared all our thoughts and made us realise that there was actually nothing to fear.  In fact ignoring 'hurricane Adrian' had no consequences, and it always quickly blew itself out.
He had indeed wasted 12 years with this negative behaviour, wasted much energy and achieved precisely nothing.
This is where Trump is heading, he'll have his 'yes men', he'll still hold rousing rallies (which is very odd for a sitting president) but he will never, ever achieve any of the things he rants on about.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -