John (aka Jack) Owen bn abt 1875 Llandudno

[jom]

I wondered if someone might be kind enough to see if there is a baptism record for John OWEN who was born to John Owen and Margaret (Jones) abt 1875 Llandudno. They may well have been living at either Tyn-y-Maes Cottage, Llandudno or back Mostyn Street, Eglwys Rhos at that time (1874 they were in Tyn-y-Maes and were at 4, Back Mostyn, Eglwys Rhos  in 1877.

Jack married Ellen OWEN of Menai Bridge in 1904.  I have all relevant census returns for him.  Ellen disappears after 1911 but by 1931 when Jack died, he was noted to have left a widow by the name of Bertha (His death cert), whom I believe from research to be Bertha ALLEN (one time wife of Charles McKINNELL).  Further research including clues from this forum suggest Bertha and Jack had a daughter Bertha M and a son John Kenneth (as per a comment on this forum re a resident of 43 Clifton Rd in the 1950s).  My family have told me that Jack did have a daughter and son but no details re either or Jack's wife either official or otherwise and this is the first after many years that I have been anywhere close to establishing who they were.

Any information, further clues again would be most welcome

[jom]

My apologies but I realise I have a similar posting from a few years ago. Some new info however is in this second post. Perhaps the administration can amalgamate the two.

[Cambrian]

Jom

Just a couple of points about the street names in some of the documents in case you are trying to locate them now.

Back Mostyn Street became Somerset Street in 1910.

The Sanatorium in Clonmel Street, was actually in what is now Trinity Square. It occupied the site of what is now an office block - part of the Boots (chemists) business.  The Sanatorium was also known as the Llandudno Convalescent Home for Women.

[Hugo]

Cambrian,  Jom said that the Back Mostyn Street was in Eglwysrhos but Somerset Street was in the Parish of Llandudno.     Part of Bodafon Street was in the Parish of Eglwysrhos, could it be Bodafon Street instead?    Both streets are at the back of Mostyn Street

[Cambrian]

That puzzled me too, Hugo.  As far as I know, Bodafon Street was called Bodafon Row until the name change in 1910.
I will ponder!

[jom]

Hi both,
Thought I'd post the other certs to show how the address was stated.  The first is the birth Certificate of Emily Agnes OWEN who married David DAVIES and lived in Ormonde Terr.  The second is her sister Susannah Ann who married William WILLIAMS of the Old Telegraph .  They went to live in Bristol.
These ladies were Jack's sisters

[jom]

I had this as 4, Back Mostyn Street.  Is it correct?  The other I have noted as 3, Taliesin Street where Jack lived before he married. Can't help with Tyn-y-Maes Cottage though!  Is it off Church Walks on Tyn-y-Maes Hill?

[Hugo]

I'm sure that we can find the answer for you.   The house that you have the photo of No 4 Back Mostyn Street was not in the old Parish of Eglwysrhos.
The Parishes were marked off with boundary stones and this stone is half way down Bodafon Street which is the next street along to Somerset Street.

[Hugo]

I called at the Archives today and had a look at the Baptism records for the two parishes, Llandudno and Eglwysrhos but there is no entry for John Owen.
I couldn't find an entry for him in the Marriage Register when I had a look previously so I'm starting to wonder why I can't find any entries as most families baptised their children.
In the 19th century a lot of Welsh families turned to the Chapel instead of the Church and most of the Chapel records were not made available to the Archives.
It's a wild guess and that's all it is but could that be the explanation because I know that some of the family (Jones') were Baptists.  Anyway it's best to wait until the Certificate comes and that should reveal something.
While I was in the Archives I came across this extract from the burial index and enclose it in case you haven't seen it before.
I drove a friend up the Great Orme today to his home and then stopped to take some photos.   The first one was taken outside No 6 Ormonde Terrace and the Houses are those in Llwynon Road,  the Golf Course behind the houses is run by our very own forum member Ormegolf and if I'm not mistaken it looks like his vehicle is at the top of the course where he'll be doing something to it.
Wayside No 12 Llwynon Road (the white house) is lower down and around the corner and the two photos were taken outside the property

[jom]

Thank you for all that Hugo.  I have searched baptism records online over the years and can find none for John and Margaret's children including Emily Agnes, Jack and Susannah Anne.  However when Margaret died and John remarried (Laura ROBERTS) they had both their subsequent children baptised i.e. Ellinor bn 1880 and Edward bn  1892.  I have the records for both.  So may be as you say they were baptised in the baptist church, or maybe not at all???

Re the memorial Inscriptions ... Thank you for posting.  I do however, have a copy of that document.  The John and Margaret are not mine though.  I think this may be Alderman John OWEN and family.  My John and Margaret were probably in Colne Cott. Mostyn St. when Margaret died _ She died in the Cottage Hospital, Eglwys Rhos.  John was at Penygwaith, Llandudno when he died (His and Laura's home)

Great photos and so nice to see the relationship of Ormonde Terr with Llwynon Road and the golf course.  Thank you - that's lovely.  Also the photos of No12 specifically.  You must have one heck of a collection by now, Hugo!

No sign of the marriage cert as yet - long way to come!  which will help me re my Sally and Eric mystery.  Will post asap

[Hugo]

I realised last night that the memorial inscription for John Owen was not your relative but it was too late by then to delete the photo.     
No 4 Back Mostyn Street still remains a mystery but I'm sure that it will be sorted out.    I had a look at Bodafon Street yesterday and the present day No 4 was the home of Richard Codman in 1911 (The Punch and Judy man)  and his house is on the left of my previous photo and you can see a plaque above the door.    The boundary stone which marks the boundary of the Llandudno and Eglwysrhos Parishes is further down the street and is hidden behind the black bin.
However it doesn't prove anything as the street may have been renumbered so I'll wait now for the certificate to come.

[Hugo]

Just an add on as I was reading a book the other night on Llandudno by Chris Draper.     In the book he mentions Ty'n y maes  (it's spelt differently sometimes) and it was in Cwlach Street Llandudno on the lower slopes of the Great Orme.
A short distance away in the same street is Caersalem a Wesleyan Methodist Chapel built in 1837 and that's what made me think that John Owen, if he was Baptised then he may have been Baptised there.
One of the well placed Trustees of Caersalem was a John Owens owner of Gyffin Mill.    No wonder it's hard to find info on John Owen(s) when there were so many of them!

[jom]

There most certainly are Hugo. Particularly with their tradition of naming the first born son in any family "John". I should revisit that book and Ken Dibbles' now I have more idea about folk. Have recently moved though so may have to wait or do some digging 

[Hugo]

I came across this in the Archives today.       


 

[Hugo]

Jom,  I didn't find out the location of Colne Cottage but on the War Memorial for WW 1 was the name John Thomas who lived at Colne Cottage.
When I looked at the 1911 Street Index for Llandudno there was a John Thomas living at 4 St Georges Place,  Back  Madoc Street.    If you have a Census record for John Owen at Colne Cottage would you mind supplying 3 addresses before and 3 after Colne Cottage so that it can be traced.   The Census records are usually done in some type of order so that may help.
In the 1911 Street Index there was a John Owen  Pier Official  living at Glyn Cottage  Old Road, is he your relation?