Author Topic: Help - Jones family - originally from Pen, moved to Llandudno then Colwyn Bay  (Read 6801 times)

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Offline carolyn_4981

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Hi!

I'm having an absolute nightmare finding anything out about my grandmother and her mother!!

My grandmother was called Buddug Davies (nee Jones) she had a sister Eirwen and a brother Les. She was married to Cynlas Davies who was a driving instructor in Colwyn Bay. Their father was called Pierce Jones and their Mother, Margaret.

Margaret was sectioned after Pierce decided to remarry (Her name was Bet, she won on the Littlewoods pools - they lived on the road up from Woolworths).  Les joined the army (was too young), Eirwen and Buddug were sent to Plas Blodwel in Llandudno Junction then to a home in Ambleside.

I would really like to know what happened to Margaret, but any info would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance  $walesflag$

Offline suepp

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Hi, you could obtain the marriage details through North Wales BMD and send off for a certificate which will provide address, father's name and occupation, it is then possible to trace back through local archives or on Ancestry. Was Buddug born in 1915? if so there are records on Ancestry that point to the family. If you have an occupation for Pierce, you could pin him down in local directories, for example there are 4 Pierce Jones' listed in the 1929 directory (none of them in Upper Mostyn Street). The latest census returns are for 1911, so it would be possible to track them back in that way with a few more personal details like dates of birth, names of siblings etc.
Ancestry are beginning to list registers from institutions but with a commmon Christian name and Surname it can be very difficult to identify the correct people.


Offline carolyn_4981

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I have birth, marriage and death certs - just lead to dead ends :(

My grandmother was born on 21 March 1930, her father (Pierce) was from Anglesey.

Pierce was a grocer I think - he used to sell veg in a cart around Llandudno.

Thanks for your prompt reply :)

Offline Fester

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A very great man has just informed me that one Pierce Jones owned the shop opposite the Empire Hotel, (just become the dress shop),  it's on the corner of Church Walks and Upper Mostyn Street
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline rhuddlan

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 A  Buddig Jones married  Cynlas Davies in the q/e september 1951 in conwy registration. If you obtained the certificate it
might give more info. (family search)
  A  Pierce Jones is on the 1939 register living in Llandudno and born in 1894.( find my past)

Offline Hugo

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I have a book on Llandudno with a photo of the Pierce Brothers Grocery Store at I Tudno Street Llandudno,  the one Fester mentioned.  (Was Brian the great man Fester? )
The photo was C1905 and I'll post it on here as soon as I can.
If Margaret was sectioned it could have been to the Denbigh Hospital although I know there was one at Sychnant Park but don't know for sure when it operated as a hospital

Offline Hugo

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Sorry about the quality of the photo but the original was taken C1905.   In the book it mentions " In the closing years of the 19th century farmer's sons Edward and younger brother Robert Pierce moved here from Llanefydd, Denbighshire to open up a grocery store"

This unusual building featured in Blodau a 6 part S4C   TV series.

Offline Hugo

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Just reading this thread again there are a few things that don't add up. 

In Chris Draper and John Lawson Reay's book it refers to Edward and Robert Pierce and that they came from Llanefydd in Denbighshire

Carolyn however mentions Pierce Jones and that he was from Anglesey.   

Both were grocers and there may be some link,  but that link hasn't been established yet
 

Offline Fester

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I have a book on Llandudno with a photo of the Pierce Brothers Grocery Store at I Tudno Street Llandudno,  the one Fester mentioned.  (Was Brian the great man Fester? )
The photo was C1905 and I'll post it on here as soon as I can.
If Margaret was sectioned it could have been to the Denbigh Hospital although I know there was one at Sychnant Park but don't know for sure when it operated as a hospital

The great man wishes to remain anonymous... but his name 'might' begin with Brian😄😄
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline rhuddlan

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If (and it's a big if) the Pierce Jones born 1894 on the 1939 register is the correct one ......then there is a birth
in Holyhead in 1893 which is very close.
That would mean if he had the shop in the photo it would have been some time after 1905 .he wouldn't have been old enough
at that time?

Offline Hugo

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That's interesting Rhuddlan and rules out Pierce Jones from that photo in 1905.    I wonder if there is a later connection somewhere between the Pierce family and the Jones family

Those Census records don't always give you the correct age.  they are done very late March or very early in April so there is a 75 per cent chance that the 1893 year is correct

Offline carolyn_4981

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Hello

Thank you for responding!  I don't think there is a link between the Jones and Pierce family - There is the Pierce-Jones family in Llandudno too, we are not related to them either.

Hugo was right, it is Pierce Jones!

Rhuddlan - That is indeed when my grandparents were married, unfortunately we have hit another dead end there!

Really stuck at the moment as I can't access Denbigh Asylum information pertaining to my great-grandmother!

Thank you all so much!

Offline Hugo

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Carolyn, would you mind clarifying a couple of points:-
Was it Margaret that was also known as Bet?
Was in Margaret who won on the Littlewoods Pools and that she and Pierce lived in Upper Mostyn Street?

Offline Hugo

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I've copied part of some info on the Denbigh Hospital but I don't think that you will be able to access them due to the 100 year rule

The North Wales Hospital, Denbigh
 
The North Wales Hospital’s records are held by Denbighshire Archives Service. The collection is one of the most comprehensive examples of asylum records in the country.  The hospital was known by various names during its existence- The North Wales Lunatic Asylum, The North Wales Counties Lunatic Asylum, The North Wales Counties Mental Hospital and The North Wales Mental Hospital.

The collection includes administrative records such as minutes and annual reports plus a fantastic collection patient records, from 1848 when the hospital opened and until the establishment of the NHS in 1948, and which have been used to research the care and treatment of patients and attitudes to mental illness.

Included in the patient records are a large number of reception orders which are bundled in chronological sequence.  Reception orders provide evidence that the patient was ‘certified insane’ and  include details of the patient’s behaviour prior to admission.  Certification required the signature of two magistrates and the medical opinion of an approved doctor
Unfortunately, the catalogue for this collection is not available online, and can only be consulted in our office. These records are free to view at our office, however records which were created during the last 100 years are closed due to NHS patient confidentiality regulations.  We are currently working with volunteers to create a comprehensive index of reception orders to make searching the 16,000 + records much easier for researchers.




Offline Hugo

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Carolyn, those Birth, marriage and death certificates that you have must reveal some info about the family that may help in your search.
I've looked in the 1929 Llandudno Street Index at the Archives but there is no Pierce Jones there with an occupation listed as a grocer, nor in the 1939 Street Index either.
I had a look in the Colwyn Bay Street Index for 1925 and there is only one Pierce Jones listed there but he is a quarryman.    I did see a listing for Jones and Pierce Grocers of Chester House  135 Abergele Road  Colwyn Bay.
I also had a look in part of the North Wales Weekly News for 1951 but could not see a Wedding notice for Cynlas Davies and Buddug Jones in it.    Those type of notices often give bits of info to follow up.

I've read your very first entry again and you have said that they lived on the road up from Woolworths  now we seem to have taken it to be the Woolworths in Llandudno but did you mean the Woolworths in Colwyn Bay?

In a Colwyn Bay Street Index for the 1960's  there is an entry for C M W Davies of Llys Aled Woodland Park  Colwyn Bay  and as Woodland Park is just up the road from Woolworths is there any chance that this C M W Davies could be Cynlas Davies?
I have a memory of Cynlas Davies the driving Instructor but it's very vague unfortunately.