Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 67045 times)

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Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #450 on: May 31, 2019, 06:08:36 PM »
Jacob Rees-Mogg is complaining about Boris Johnson being taken to court for lying during the Referendum campaign.

“It is trying to use the courts to achieve a political end which, I think, is neither right or proper. "

Of course when his father took the government to court to try to block the Maastricht Treaty, a course of action to which Rees-Mogg happily subscribed,  that was an entirely different thing.

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“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

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Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #451 on: June 02, 2019, 12:12:18 AM »
I met a very pleasant elderly Belgian couple in Spain this week, and they asked what the heck Brexit was all about.   They thought that Britain had basically imploded.   It was hard to disagree.
I summarised Brexit thus, in my pidgin English.....

About 35% of Brits turned out to vote in a referendum.  Lots of old people voted Brexit, when asked why, few of them really knew why, other than they liked Britain better 50 years ago.
Lots of young people apparently wanted to stay in Europe,  but they were too lazy to vote.
So we are where we are.
Embarrassing really, on many levels.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #452 on: June 06, 2019, 05:54:14 PM »
This is worth watching:

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“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #453 on: July 29, 2019, 10:50:58 AM »
The chief executive of Vauxhall-owner PSA says it could move all production from its Ellesmere Port factory if Brexit makes it unprofitable.

Carlos Tavares told the Financial Times that the car maker has alternatives to the plant which it could use.

The move would probably lead to the closure of the site, the FT said, threatening 1,000 jobs.
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SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #454 on: September 12, 2019, 10:08:09 AM »
Operation Yellowhammer: Government's Brexit forecast shows shocking impact no-deal could have on UK
The 'worst case' scenario document has been released following a vote by MPs
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Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said the Yellowhammer document confirms there are "severe risks" if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.
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Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #455 on: September 21, 2019, 05:24:48 PM »
Brexit was never going to be easy because most "divorces"  are not usually amicable but I think that immigration played a major part in the result.
Despite all the truths and untruths what never came across clearly was that the UK had more immigrants from outside the EU than immigrants from the EU itself. 

I heard on the evening news this week that the UK had intercepted a large number of migrants coming over the English Chanel from France.    That announcement seemed to imply that the UK government had actually prevented the migrants from entering into the UK. After all by definition the word interception implies that they have stopped or prevented the migrants from completing what they set out to achieve.
However, as usual that was not the case, all they did was to escort those migrants back to the UK where they are processed and then released into the community with certain conditions such as reporting to authorities on a regular basis.
Most immigrants abscond and are never seen again but the UK needs to tighten up its procedure and deport any illegal immigrant that does not meet the criteria that is set out for acceptance by the UK

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #456 on: October 24, 2019, 06:03:40 PM »
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“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.



Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #457 on: October 27, 2019, 08:41:22 AM »
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Worth watching...

“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Blongb

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #458 on: October 28, 2019, 12:49:55 PM »
I've read a lot about what would happen if Brexit doesn't happen and the Lisbon treaty, due to come into force in 2022. is enacted if we remain in the EU. After a Google search I came across this :- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login I am now much better informed
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #459 on: October 28, 2019, 02:14:57 PM »
Yes;  fullfact is a great site and does a lot to eliminate the sheer volume of outright lies purveyed by the right-wing brexiters.   Good on a lot of other subjects, too.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #460 on: November 02, 2019, 05:37:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.. (don't laugh, poor things)

This is the third Leave rally that's seen hardly anyone attend. When are most Leave voters going to understand the vote was all to do with the dismal fortunes of the Tory party and nothing to do with helping ordinary folk?



“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

spotty dog

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #461 on: November 05, 2019, 12:27:34 PM »
I don't generally reply to BREXIT but a little article might interest you all
They say the truth shocks people if it does then I hope this truth shocks Remainers to the core of their souls.
The EU Customs Union is about selling goods.
2. The EU27 countries made a profit of £95 BILLION in selling goods to the UK last year.
Remain MPs talk a lot about the EU’s Customs Union. Few know much about it. Below I present some real facts, researched from HMRC, the EU’s official statistics agency Eurostat, the EU Commission, and the House of Commons Library.
For the EU, the UK is a big earner when it comes to its Customs Union goods trade with the UK.
The EU27 countries made £95 billion pounds profit from the UK in 2018 alone
They sold us £266 billion of goods last year
They only bought £172 billion of goods from us
It’s little wonder the EU27 refer to the UK
as ‘Treasure Island’
Since the EU Referendum in 2016, the EU27 countries have sold
over £¼ TRILLION pounds more goods to the UK than we have sold to them.
Trading with the EU? No membership of anything is required
179 non-EU states around the world sell into the EU [EU data]
They are not members of the Customs Union, but they sell successfully to the EU
2. They are not members of the Single Market, but they sell successfully to the EU
3. They are not members of the EEA or EFTA, but they sell successfully to the EU
4. They have control of their borders, their money, and their laws, and yet they sell successfully to the EU
5. And the only country in the top 40 with a full, ratified Free Trade Agreement is South Korea.
Do you want the truth Remainers, can you handle the truth Remainers.
WELL, CAN YOU?
When the UK leaves the EU, it will become the 2nd-biggest buyer of EU goods in the World
The UK market is vital to the EU27
It’s almost as large as the USA and is far more important to the EU27 than China.
Leaving the Customs Union, the trade-weighted average EU tariff for non-agricultural products is only 2.8%. Only 8.7% for agricultural products.
Over 85% of sales into the EU in 2018 came from countries with no membership of the Customs Union, no membership of the Single Market, EEA, EFTA, or anything else which Remain MPs might be able to think of.
The EU Customs Union doesn’t work for the UK.
Let’s join the 179 non-EU states which simply don’t need it.
[ Sources: HMRC | EU Commission | Eurostat | UK Office for National Statistics | House of Commons Library ]
Brexit

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #462 on: November 05, 2019, 01:55:45 PM »
Sadly, this version of the 'truth' is anything but. This is not 'a little article', as claimed.  It is, in fact, taken from the 'Brexit facts 4EU' website, a pro-Brexit group funded by ex-tory donors who see the future within the EU as being less safe for their tax dodging activities.

It's really important not to lose sight of the simple fact that brexit is all about the Tories. There has always been a small group of really, seriously wealthy Tories, who resent what they see as the EU's left-wing leanings and the EU's moves towards tightening the rules on tax dodging. 

If you're really wealthy and like to keep you-r money in offshore tax haven and not pay any tax in the UK, like the five richest newspaper owners, then fair enough.  In a democracy that's your right, even if you're eaning millions and not supporting the NHS or Education or the poorest and most vulnerable in society. 

The very right, however, fear that the EU  will start to tighten the rules so they can't escape paying their fair share. It's just such a tragedy that they've conned so many into believing them.

So - down to the fact about where this stuff came from:

“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #463 on: November 05, 2019, 02:24:19 PM »
BF4EU (Brexit Facts4EU) has been around since before the 2016 EU referendum, but has only recently come to attention. Its main resource is Brexit Index, which it claims “delivers the most definitive source of easily findable facts on all aspects of Brexit”. BF4EU also possesses a ‘Brexit Battle Pack and Toolbox’, which provides a collection of resources to target MPs and the media. The pack/toolbox You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Tory MP Anna Soubry as an ‘extremist’ (presumably because she supports a People’s Vote) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login that Tory Remainer Amber Rudd should resign her seat as MP. The bulk of the pack/toolbox contains advice and information on how to contact MPs and the media.

BF4EU is endorsed by a number of groups that promote a hard Brexit or No Deal. These include:

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    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
    Fishing For Leave
    The Bruges Group
    The Time Party
    The Campaign for an Independent Britain
    Alliance of British Entrepreneurs
    Scots for Leave
    Leavers of London (renamed Leavers of Britain)
    Democrats & Veterans Party
    Global Britain

Allegedly, BF4EU is endorsed by Matthew Elliott, who joined with Paul Staines (aka ‘Guido Fawkes’) and others to develop a UK voter database. Elliott subsequently went on to head up Vote Leave and Brexit Central.

These new-wave pro-Brexit groups are, of course, complemented by the more well-known organisations, such as UKIP. Nor must we forget that old stalwart Leave.EU financier Arron Banks, who is also under investigation by multiple agencies:

Arron Banks back with his targeted Facebook ads.

The febrile debate by parliamentarians that is a consequence of gross government ineptitude will inevitably be complemented by hard-fought campaigns on all sides of the Brexit divide. But the tactics will likely differ from those adopted by the original Leave campaigns, given that both Leave.EU and Vote Leave were found to have acted illegally.

Nevertheless, this is still largely a battle between the right and progressives.

So what are the facts? Spotty Dog's post claims "The EU27 countries made a profit of £95 BILLION in selling goods to the UK last year." But the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login disagrees. It states: Exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth £274 billion in 2017, while exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about £341 billion.  But let's look at something that Spotty Dog's site doesn't want to publicise. 

1. Those figures will differ if you look at EU data, and the Office for National Statistics told us that this is because EU countries collect data about services in different ways.

2. You can't treat the entire EU as a single country, which is what the pro-brexit sites like to do. Among the 28 different countries that comprise the EU none exports more to us than we do to them. Of course,if you're daft enough to say it's just two countries - the EU and UK - then obviously we'll import more.  After all, there are 27 other countries all seeking an export market.

That, of course, is not what the post above wants you to think about.




“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

  • Administrator
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #464 on: November 05, 2019, 02:47:49 PM »
Where the really nasty, dishonest, sneaky bit comes in, however, is the list of 'points':

179 non-EU states around the world sell into the EU [EU data]
They are not members of the Customs Union, but they sell successfully to the EU
2. They are not members of the Single Market, but they sell successfully to the EU
3. They are not members of the EEA or EFTA, but they sell successfully to the EU
4. They have control of their borders, their money, and their laws, and yet they sell successfully to the EU
5. And the only country in the top 40 with a full, ratified Free Trade Agreement is South Korea.
Do you want the truth Remainers, can you handle the truth Remainers.


This is a tactic frequently employed by the brexit bunch; to list a separate points what are,  in reality, just a single point. The initial point "179 non-EU states" says it all; and it's true. Non-EU members can trade with the EU. On certain conditions.  Of course, that wasn't mentioned.

But the thing I really dislike about the pro-brexit groups are their sneaky insinuations...

They have control of their borders, their money, and their laws, and yet they sell successfully to the EU

Er...so do we. We never signed up to being part of the Schengen area, we remain free to prohibit anyone we don't want from entering the UK and we still make all our own laws.

The final irony, of course, and utterly lost on brexiters, is their rapacious desire for brexit at any cost while the egregious Johnson says "Parliament is holding the country hostage."

Sorry?   Oh yes - Parliament.  Isn't that what the appalling Johnson was calling for when he demanded we 'retake our sovereignty' ?  He wanted sovereignty then - so badly. But when that same sovereignty prevents him from getting his own, selfish and power-hungry way, suddenly it's no longer important.

I wouldn't want to stoop to the deceit and rudeness of the brexit post, but I could be tempted to say

"Do you want the truth Leavers, can you handle the truth Leavers (which are actually two  separate sentences and lacking a question mark)..
WELL, CAN YOU?

“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.