Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 143009 times)

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Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #435 on: May 28, 2019, 11:11:23 am »
Overall the turnout was 36%. Ironic, really, given that so many complained about the EU's apparent lack of democracy...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline BrianP

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #436 on: May 28, 2019, 02:11:21 pm »
Never mind making voting compulsory, what about making it compulsory for politicians to tell the truth.


Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #437 on: May 28, 2019, 02:42:00 pm »
Well, you have to start with what's possible...   _))*
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #438 on: May 28, 2019, 02:43:17 pm »
Some more facts:

Brexit Party (UKIP version 2)     + 29 seats
UKIP (version 1) lost                  - 24 seats

So, Brexit won 5 new seats: somewhere from the pool of Labour who lost 10 seats and Conservatives who lost 15. Overall, there's little doubt; the country favours a second referendum.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #439 on: May 28, 2019, 02:53:49 pm »
You seem a bit perturbed, Ian, that a significant proportion of the electorate are sick of an arrogant, self serving political elite in this country and have had the temerity to vote for something else.

Who did you vote for, btw, don’t think you said? I voted for the Brexit Party.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #440 on: May 28, 2019, 03:47:02 pm »
I voted Plaid Cymru. They're one of the Remain parties. I suspect had Change UK made its name Remain they might have done better. Used to vote Labour, but JC worries me.

Quote
You seem a bit perturbed, Ian, that a significant proportion of the electorate are sick of an arrogant, self serving political elite in this country and have had the temerity to vote for something else.

Interesting. You know, Dave, "arrogant, self serving and elite" describes the ex-Tory, privately-schooled, Enoch Powell admirer Nigel Farage, rather well. 

Leave voters are very energetic, terrified of a second referendum and determined in every way possible to achieve their aim. With only a single party openly representing nothing but Brexit, I've already stated that I expected them to sweep the board.  The only surprise was that they didn't do a lot better, frankly.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #441 on: May 29, 2019, 12:47:32 pm »
It's one heck of a mess and these matters should have been sorted out in the EU long before Cameron suggested a referendum for the UK.
At the moment both Tory and Labour are just looking after their own interests instead of doing what's best for the UK as a whole.
Teresa May, a remain voter, said that she was carrying out the will of the people to leave the EU  and Jeremy Corbyn also said that the will of the voters should be carried out.
Now in the papers today it said that Corbyn would be seeking a 2nd referendum despite many labour controlled areas voting to leave.
Neither of the two main parties are doing themselves any favours by their behaviour.   It would be a joke if the matter wasn't so serious

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #442 on: May 29, 2019, 02:00:33 pm »
We also voted Brexit, but it seems if you tell people you voted Brexit a lot of them don't seem to like it!
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #443 on: May 29, 2019, 03:26:13 pm »
I voted remain but accept that the majority voted for Brexit so that is what the government should deliver.    To suggest a second referendum just makes a mockery of the whole thing

Offline Bri Roberts

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #444 on: May 29, 2019, 03:58:12 pm »
There  is no doubt that what was written on the side of that red double decker bus certainly influenced the way many voters voted.

After the impending Boris court case has been concluded, I can already see a stronger case for a second referendum looming on the grounds of another mis-selling scandal.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #445 on: May 29, 2019, 05:55:14 pm »
I voted remain but accept that the majority voted for Brexit so that is what the government should deliver.    To suggest a second referendum just makes a mockery of the whole thing

But we don't run the country through plebiscite;  it's done through representational democracy. Bri is spot on: it's currently tantamount to a mis-selling scandal.  Another referendum is the only realistic option for several reasons:

1. Misinformation on an industrial scale influenced the first one.
2. A second one would put the matter to bed - for a decent while, at any rate.
3. This is the important one, IMV: since the original referendum 2.1m more people have become eligible to vote. Denying the current 18-21 year olds their opportunity to take part in a final say is little short of criminal.

If it's such an obvious course of action, then why is Leave so terrified of a second referendum?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline mull

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #446 on: May 29, 2019, 06:08:28 pm »
Why are the leavers so scared of another vote ?

Having said that. The country should not be run this way. Things do not stand still , time moves on, views change. There has been over 3 years trying to disentangle over 40 years of EU membership and it has not been possible.

Have another vote with the extra knowledge we all have, what have we got to lose ?

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #447 on: May 29, 2019, 10:51:41 pm »
I actually don’t think there is a mechanism to end up at a second referendum.  I honestly can’t see a pathway to it.
I don’t understand why the Brexiteers are so antagonistic to anyone suggesting a 2nd vote though, because they seem to be convinced that they won by a mile.
If so, why fear a second vote?   Wouldn’t that shut us re MOANERS up for good?
Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #448 on: May 29, 2019, 11:01:27 pm »
I saw on the news that Marcus Ball is taking out a private prosecution against Boris for telling lies during the Brexit Referendum.   Isn't that the practice for most MP's?
     

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #449 on: May 30, 2019, 08:38:34 am »
Mmmm...MPs' comments are usually reasonably bland and say almost nothing of substance, which is why they can't be called out for outright lying. Johnson (I refuse to call him 'Boris';  he's not a pal) actually lied in some of his many off-the-cuff comments he made. And the Vote Leave campaign organisers have already been fined substantially for breaches of electoral law, but the specific lies told were:

    We send £350m a week to Brussels
    We can’t stop Turkey joining
    We can’t stop a European army
    We are still liable to pay eurozone bailouts
    The UK rebate can be changed against our will
    Our VAT exemptions will be ended
    Cameron’s deal was not legally binding
    EU law is adopted by unelected bureaucrats
    We can’t control our borders in the EU
    Criminals arriving in Germany can get EU passports and come over here
    Health tourism costs us billions
    EU needs UK trade more than vice versa
    Past referendum results have been ignored
    Auditors still refuse to sign off the accounts
    CAP adds £400 to British food bills
    British steel suffers because of the EU
    Irish border will be unaffected by Brexit
    UK can’t deport EU criminals
    UK is always outvoted
    60-70% of laws come from EU
    Renationalisation of industries is impossible
    We get no veto on future treaty change or integration
    The budget ceiling can increase without our consent
 


Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.