Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 143008 times)

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Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2016, 10:00:36 am »
It's not a good thing JB, it's a terrible thing, borne out of desperation.
Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2016, 12:01:10 pm »
You only have to see the news on TV to realise how desperate those people are but the situation is in a mess.     You don't hear of any mass migration eastwards to the rich Arab countries, it's all into Europe.
Last night on TV it showed the Macedonian border that has been closed and is guarded by troops of various European nationalities.  A large group of people were sat either side of the railway track leading into Macedonia and chanting for the border to be opened.   
Nothing wrong with that some do gooders might say but I noticed that there was not a single woman present in that group.  If those Muslims cannot integrate with their own people how on earth can they integrate with a country that has a different culture, different values and speaks a different language?
Greece now has over a 100,000 illegal immigrants to look after and the number is increasing daily, yet it has it's own financial problems and the Greek tourist industry for 2016 will definitely feel the backlash this Summer.
I believe that Australia's policy is correct for them and I just wish that the UK would introduce a points system for immigration just like Australia has done.


Offline Blongb

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2016, 03:05:41 pm »
In my mind their is only one sensible policy to adopt. The migrant / refugees call them what you will, are all making dangerous boat journeys to get to Europe. Thousands of desperate ones have died making the attempt because we have no coherent policies in place to deal with them. We must keep the Navies out in the Mediterranean carrying out their humanitarian rescue duties but instead of landing the rescued in Europe, land them back in North Africa or instead of a Ferry to Athens, a trip back to Bodrum or Marmaris should be the result of any illegal attempt to circumvent our visa requirements. Only then will the message get through and the flood stemmed.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2016, 04:20:37 pm »
From Amnesty International:


    Gulf countries including Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees.
    Other high income countries including Russia, Japan, Singapore and South Korea have also offered zero resettlement places.
    Germany has pledged 35,000 places for Syrian refugees through its humanitarian admission programme and individual sponsorship; about 75 % of the EU total.
    Germany and Sweden together have received 47% Syrian asylum applications in the EU between April 2011 and July 2015
    Excluding Germany and Sweden, the remaining 26 EU countries have pledged around 8,700 resettlement places, or around 0.2% of Syrian refugees in the main host countries.

So yes: rather a lot of questions for the UAE...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2016, 05:13:57 pm »
In my mind their is only one sensible policy to adopt. The migrant / refugees call them what you will, are all making dangerous boat journeys to get to Europe. Thousands of desperate ones have died making the attempt because we have no coherent policies in place to deal with them. We must keep the Navies out in the Mediterranean carrying out their humanitarian rescue duties but instead of landing the rescued in Europe, land them back in North Africa or instead of a Ferry to Athens, a trip back to Bodrum or Marmaris should be the result of any illegal attempt to circumvent our visa requirements. Only then will the message get through and the flood stemmed.

I agree with everything that you've said and this present situation must be stopped. It can't be argued where they have sailed from so it's sensible to return them to the country that they came from.
There are a reported number of 6,000 migrants in the jungle in Calais and the French authorities are now clearing the jungle and relocating them to a better camp some distance away and yet the migrants are complaining about that.   The reason for the objections  being that they may have to have their finger prints taken and may have to seek asylum in France!
It's a bit of a cheek really, because finger printing, dna  and photographs should have been done at the point of entry into Europe.   If they are genuine asylum seekers rather than economic migrants they would have sought asylum in the first safe place they landed in and that would have been Greece or Italy

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2016, 08:54:40 am »
Statistics can be manipulated in many ways and it is often done by Governments in power to make it appear that the situation is better than it actually is.    The UK official  net migration estimate for the year ending (YE) September 2015 is 323,000 and has a 95% confidence interval of +/-37,000   ??

The other night I caught the tail end of the news and wish that I had listened to it properly.    In the news there were a number of MP's who had written to various Government Departments, including the NHS and were asking for information under the Freedom of Information Acts and they had not been supplied with the information and alleged that the present Government were trying to withhold the info they were seeking.

As we are aware Cameron pledged that he would get net migration  down to the tens of thousands whereas we now know that the latest official figure is well over 300,000.      What the MP's on TV were saying was that the real net migration figures could be nearer 900,000   and they needed the figures from the FOI Act to prove it.
It may be that the Government are deliberately withholding this info with the forthcoming reforendum being so near.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2016, 09:22:20 am »
From Amnesty International:
Gulf countries including Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees.
It's interesting how they won't offer any assistance to their Muslim brothers.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2016, 08:37:28 am »
It's good to see the European Council President, Donald Tusk, finally stating what has been obvious to most people for the last year. The idea that groups of people can illegally and forcibly enter Europe just because they want to have a better life at the European peoples' expense is obviously not acceptable.

EU's Tusk warns illegal economic migrants: Do not come here

European Council President Donald Tusk has warned illegal economic migrants against coming to Europe, during a new push to solve the EU migrant crisis. He said illegal economic migrants were risking "lives and money" for nothing. Mr Tusk visited Greece and Turkey on Thursday to discuss ways to reduce the flow of migrants travelling west.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35714087

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2016, 10:48:02 am »
It's not before time either and it should be made clear to the illegal migrants that if they do try to enter Europe they will be returned to the country they sailed from. 

On 8 August 1991, several ships carrying approximately 15,000 Albanian migrants succeeded in entering the port of Bari, Italy.  The Italian government’s response was harsh.  Most of the Albanians were detained in a sports stadium without adequate food, water, or access to bathrooms.  Italian authorities dropped supplies to the detained migrants by helicopter.  Within several weeks most of the migrants were deported to Albania.  Their harsh treatment was criticised by human rights organisations and the Pope, but was justified by the Italian government as necessary to deter further irregular migration from Albania.
Now Albania wasn't in the EU at the time and Italy was within it's rights to return the migrants to the country they came from.  These illegal migrants are not from the EU either so why doesn't the EU do it now?
The photos may have Libya on them but the ships actually sailed from Albania

Offline Blongb

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2016, 03:11:24 pm »
Allowing unfettered migration into another Country could lead to unproportional and devastating consequences for the indigenous local population:- 1492 on the native peoples of North and South America or a couple of more modern examples:- 1948 on the illegal occupiers of Palestine. 2008 Serbia lost its historic province of Kosovo because of uncontrolled immigration of Albanian Muslims.

I could have been a bit more controversial and added Wales to the list but as we were made a part of England by the Acts of Union of 1536 and 1543, I'll leave you to make up your own minds on that one.  Something for you to think about. ?{}?
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2016, 08:06:39 pm »
Well, the exit camp is increasingly loud and increasingly negative in its approach. Every time someone speaks up in favour of remaining (and a lot of very high achieving individuals have done so) all we hear from the exit camp are cries of 'Rubbish'.  I can't remember hearing one constructive or positive thing from them since the campaign started.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2016, 09:51:48 pm »
That's right Ian.   
Remember my post from a few months ago?  I am still no nearer to getting a shred of information that I can base my decision on.   But as I said back then, I was never going to get any was I?
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2016, 07:38:16 am »
Very true...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline peterh

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2016, 11:11:00 am »
My problem is simply one trust.
Do I trust the elected and non elected members of the EU council?
Unfortunately I do not.

Do I believe that once the referendum is decided will there will be a raft of new regulations that will have a significant impact into our freedoms ,democracy and our way of life generally?
Unfortunately yes I do irrespective of how the vote is decided.

I also believe if the vote is to leave the there are a number of top EU council members who are petty enough to make things very difficult for us for the foreseeable future.

What is correct however is our elected government can be changed every five years if we do not agree with them whereas the EU officials are there to stay and no doubt with time there power will increase significantly. 

In essence I do not trust the EU nor our politicians so my view is I will vote as our sons and there families vote because at my age it is there future I care about and there children who will grow up in what I fear will be a very different life to one I have enjoyed - so let them decide and I will vote as they vote.

Offline Blongb

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2016, 04:17:49 pm »
In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)