Author Topic: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew  (Read 22512 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #120 on: April 02, 2018, 06:54:47 PM »
Thanks  Squigglev 2,   I can't remember them myself either but Tom will have some idea when they were taken down.   Apparently there were other gates on that section of the road past Skerryvore.
My father took me to Skerryvore when I was very young and my memory of it is rather vague.   He may have been to see Mr Bott the plumber but I'm not sure why he used to call there,

Hi Tom,  thanks for posting that info, do you know when those gates were removed and Gil Giat was demolished?

squigglev2

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #121 on: April 02, 2018, 07:03:32 PM »
No memories of gates near Skerryvore in my time either Hugo.

I'm losing track of what I'd said before but I do know the name Mr Bott and that he was a plumber.  During my time in Old Swan though I'd remember a Mr and Mrs Jones who had an Alsation dog there.

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »
I had a quick look in the Conwy Archives today and saw the inscriptions for the headstones of William Thomas and Elizabeth Jones that were in the Llangystennin graveyard.
William Thomas' was surprisingly written in English but Elizabeth Jones' was written in Welsh but in both instances the Swan" was mentioned but not the "Swan Inn" as reported by Chris Draper.   The people buried in the graves are as follows:-
Plot B 185
In affectionate of rememberance of William Thomas, Swan, Pydew  who died 28th December 1855 aged 84   (copied exactly as on the headstone)

Plot  A 076
Elizabeth Jones  wife of John Jones, Swan Pydew  died 28th October 1877 aged 48
Mary Jones daughter of Elizabeth and John   died 8th June 1879 aged 21
Evan Jones son of Elizabeth and John died 6th August 1892 aged 21
John Jones  husband of Elizabeth        died  30th August 1908 aged 75
Robert Jones son of Elizabeth and John   died 28th February 1915 aged 51
Sarah  Jones daughter of Elizabeth and John died 29th September 1938 aged 76

I then had a look at the 1861 Census and it shows two families living there, the Hughes' at No 1 and the Jones' at No 2  both heads of the families were agricultural labourers.    Next to No2  Swan is the "shop"  with the Williams family

It would be interesting to know when the Swan was a pub, but at least we know that it was sometime before 1855 and also that the gravestones didn't say "Swan Inn" as mentioned in the walking book

Cambrian

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2018, 06:41:17 PM »
Interesting info Hugo.
As you are familiar with the Archives, I was wondering if there are any records of the Licensing Justices for the Conwy Petty Sessional district.  The licensing justices would have had records - the Brewster Sessions - but possibly these are held at Caernarfon as they will have been deposited before the Llandudno Archives were established.   If these records do exist they would be very useful for dating old pubs and inns.

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2018, 10:28:01 PM »
Thanks Cambrian,   I don't know if there are any records like those you have mentioned as I've never looked for them before.   It's surprising just how many records they do have and it is a possibility that they may have them.
I'll try and remember to ask them next time I go there

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #125 on: April 05, 2018, 03:12:35 PM »
I had a look at the 1861 Census again and as in all Census records they come in some type of order.  This one appears to come past the Swan and turns left into Ffordd Y Pentre.
The Swan is a bit of a mystery as the Hughes lived in No1 and the Jones' in No 2.    Was it one building with two entrances or were there two buildings    Anyway next to the Swan is "shop"  which thanks to Tom, we now know was called Cil Giat.
Around the corner in Ffordd Y Pentre were No 1 Pydew and No 2 Pydew they must be the houses now called Fieldcroft and Karenza because next came Ala, also called Rala.
Rala is still there and when Tom and I walked down the street we noticed a planning application for it on the wall.  Apparently there is going to be modern extension attached to it
I'm afraid that I can't make out the name of the last property at the bottom of the census form but I'm sure that Tom will know the name
Islwyn which was previously called the Red Lion is across the road and has an attractive Monkey Puzzle tree in the garden

ormegolf

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #126 on: April 06, 2018, 06:41:35 PM »
  I cannot claim to know much about these pubs. But one thing strikes me. Obviously pubs in living areas of quarry villages were a focal point of the whole village.
  More recently, around 1985, I happened to be talking to a local resident at the far end of Penmaenmawr.just as they were about to pull down a pub right alongside the existing at that time main road. Prior to building the penmaenmawr/llanfairfechan ytunnel. He was talking about years ago. He stated that car travellers used to stop at this pub just to soak up the atmosphere. He said the quarrymen used to go in this pub after work. Chat for maybe three quarters of an hour. Then one would break into song. After a minute or two more would join in before after a few more minutes the locals in the pub where all in full voice.
  Rather unlike the themed pubs of nowadays ha



snowcap

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #127 on: April 06, 2018, 11:17:48 PM »
You'v taken me back to my days working down Gresford coliery when i was 16 , we would be at the pit bottom waiting to get into the cage to go up when one would start singing and in no time they would all join in.Some of them 20 or more were members of the Rhos mail voice quire so you can imagine the sound, Fantastic. Thanks Mike

squigglev2

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #128 on: April 07, 2018, 10:31:51 AM »
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I had a look at the 1861 Census again and as in all Census records they come in some type of order.  This one appears to come past the Swan and turns left into Ffordd Y Pentre.
The Swan is a bit of a mystery as the Hughes lived in No1 and the Jones' in No 2.    Was it one building with two entrances or were there two buildings    Anyway next to the Swan is "shop"  which thanks to Tom, we now know was called Cil Giat.
Around the corner in Ffordd Y Pentre were No 1 Pydew and No 2 Pydew they must be the houses now called Fieldcroft and Karenza because next came Ala, also called Rala.
Rala is still there and when Tom and I walked down the street we noticed a planning application for it on the wall.  Apparently there is going to be modern extension attached to it
I'm afraid that I can't make out the name of the last property at the bottom of the census form but I'm sure that Tom will know the name
Islwyn which was previously called the Red Lion is across the road and has an attractive Monkey Puzzle tree in the garden
I'll have to see if I can find the map again but if you go back to my reply #63 on page 5, the current Old Swan wouldn't have been there in 1861 so I guess the census refers to the old pub????
Fieldcroft doesn't seem to be their either although there seems to be a property near the boundary wall for Swan? I'm not even sure Fieldcroft is on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #129 on: April 07, 2018, 03:08:28 PM »
That's interesting Squigglev2,  and I hope that Tom can step in and clarify the situation.     Tom can trace the occupiers of the Swan back to the late 1700's so it should have been on the map.
In the 1861 Census the occupation of the families living at numbers 1 & 2 Swan were agricultural labourers not publicans and I believe that the pub operated long before 1861.
The boundary of the Swan in your map shows that Cil Giat, the shop and bakery was within the grounds of the Swan so Chris Draper was correct in what he has said, just that the shop and bakery was in a separate building to the pub and the sub post office.
After you had pointed out your post on pg 5 I had a good look at the map and have changed my opinion on what I have said previously.   Fieldcroft and Karenza may have been built after 1861 but if you look on one of your maps you will see immediately after Gil Giat a path going to a building, perhaps  that building was numbers 1 & 2 Pydew?       Ala or Rala was shown on the map and is still there now.

Fieldcroft was at one time the warehouse where Mr Evans stored his goods for the shop next door ( now a house called Karenza)

squigglev2

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #130 on: April 07, 2018, 07:51:45 PM »
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That's interesting Squigglev2,  and I hope that Tom can step in and clarify the situation.     Tom can trace the occupiers of the Swan back to the late 1700's so it should have been on the map.
But is it all the same Swan? I'm getting confused but I guess the old pub/garage to the current Old Swan and the "White Orchard" building have both been "Swan" at some point? Do we know if they were ever occupied at the same time?

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   Fieldcroft and Karenza may have been built after 1861 but if you look on one of your maps you will see immediately after Gil Giat a path going to a building, perhaps  that building was numbers 1 & 2 Pydew?
I'd wondered that too...

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #131 on: April 07, 2018, 11:03:37 PM »
I'm sure that Tom said that the Swan had acted as a Sunday School in the early 1800's so if that was the case then I don't think that the Methodist Chapel would have approved of the Sunday School being held in a pub but perhaps we'll have the answers soon

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #132 on: April 08, 2018, 02:16:49 PM »
I had a look at the online cataloge for CCBC  and wonder if the Porter Papers will throw any light on the three buildings that were once on the land belonging to the Swan?

CD4 - Porter Papers, Conwy

11 - Conveyances

30 - LLANGWSTENNIN
Cyfernod / Ref No   CD4/11/30/59
Teitl / Title   DRAFT CONVEYANCE
Ddisgrifiad / Description   1. Sarah Morgan, wife of David Morgan of Garth, Llansaintffraid, Minister of the Gospel, and others.
2. John Jones of Swan, Pydew, pa Llangwstennin, labourer.
re 3 messuages and land in pa Llangwstennin.
Consideration: 215.
Dyddiad / Date   1893 April 29
Graddau / Extent   1 item
Lefel / Level   Item

Cambrian

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #133 on: April 08, 2018, 06:13:07 PM »
Hugo - as an aside, I see that mapsnls have now uploaded the 25" scale OS maps.  I had a look at Bryn Pydew and the series shows the buildings in Bryn Pydew in some detail but unfortunately not all are named. 

Hugo

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Re: Old Public Houses in Bryn Pydew
« Reply #134 on: April 10, 2018, 05:13:00 PM »
I've had a look at some old maps too and in those, the Swan appears to be where the garage is now and there appears to be no building shown on the spot near the road where the Swan is now.
Cil Giat is shown on the map and in the position near the present entry to the drive to the Swan so it's a bit of a mystery still