Wyddfydd Road, Great Orme 1927

[Hugo]

I've just come back from Dylan's Restaurant in Menai Bridge but I'm out again soon so can't look too deeply at your latest reply but will do so tomorrow.
I was in Bodafon Street yesterday  (prior to 1910 it was called Bodafon Row). I haven't found out where "Back of Pengwern House (or hotel is) but took some photos to show you the street and it'll give you some idea of the difficulty in finding what Parishes houses were in.
The first photo is of Bodafon Street from the Clonmel Street end.   The houses up to the black bin are in the old Parish of Llandudno,  those houses behind the bin are in Eglwysrhos
Punchinella Cottage in the 2nd photo was the home of Richard Codman (Punch & Judy) who came to Llandudno in 1864
The 3rd photo is of the boundary marker behind the bin and the 4th photo is  of a terrace of cottages in the old Parish of Eglwysrhos.

[Hugo]

Hi Kaye,   I've had a look at your recent posting and it's difficult to work things out but here goes:-

Owen Williams,  I've had a look at the photo copy of the Marriage Certificate and these are the details:-
Owen Williams' father was also called Owen Williams and was a  coach man by trade but we don't know if his father was alive at the date of Owen's marriage
The witnesses were David Hughes and Anne Jones.
Owen and Mary's age was stated as 30 in 1859 on the day of the marriage,  but this disagrees with the headstone on his grave which gives his birth at C1831 so there is 3 or years discrepancy between the two events we know about
I did find an Owen Williams in Mechel Anglesey in the 1851 Census and it gives his date of birth at about 1829.   This person may or not be your Owen Williams as we have no evidence to prove it one way or another.

With regard to Owen Jones and Catherine Jones, do you know where Catherine was born as the weddings were normally carried out in the home Parish.
It may be that she wasn't from Llandudno and that's why I couldn't find a record of their marriage
By 1861 all of Owen & Catherine's children would have been old enough to have left home and that may be the reason why they are not on the 1861 Census.  Sadly Catherine, Owen's wife may have died in the meantime and that may explain why she is not included on the Census.
Gaynor's age in the 1851 Census was 10 and Ellinor's age from Chris Draper's book was  C1850 so there is a possibility of a mix up but looking back on my notes I can see when I copied the Baptism records down word for word it showed that Gaynor Jones was born 31st May 1839, she was then Baptised on 1st Sept 1839
Ellen,  Owen Jones's daughter was Baptised on 13th May 1849 but the Baptism records show that she was 27 and a half years of age at her Baptism.
My theory, and that is all it is, is that Ellen's name was inadvertently shown as Ellinor in the book, but in fact  the book should have said Gaynor as Gaynor's age matches the Census details whereas Ellen/ Ellinor does not.

Family research is interesting but can be frustrating too

[Hugo]

Just a correction to the above,   Ellinor's age in Chris Draper's book was 11 and that was in C 1850 and very similar to Gaynor's age in the 1851 Census.

[Hugo]

I called at the Conwy Archives today only to find that it has closed for two weeks to do stocktaking.  I was hoping to find Pengwern House/hotel  and also where Catherine Jones was born.
I'll call there again when the place reopens

[norman08]

Hi Hugo their is a house in Llanrhos called pengwern could it be what your looking for .

[Hugo]

Thanks Norman for mentioning that but it is definitely not that house.    It's somewhere in Llandudno and in the Census of 1861 it lists Bodafon Row which is now Bodafon Street, then Back of Pengwern House or Hotel and a Library in that order.
The Census count normally comes in some type of order and I have a feeling that it is in the back streets between Mostyn Street and the Prom.
As you know the hotels and large houses sometimes had small cottages behind them and that why I think their house was behind a much larger property but I can't remember any property called Pengwern and I was hoping the 1911 Street Index in the Archives would help me.

[Kaye]

Thank you Hugo for the photos and Norman,for your help too.I have not made much more progress but will start again in the New Year.
I sorted all the research out to date, for a visit to my mother and she was delighted to see all we had found out.I
Wishing you all a Happy Christmas and Peaceful New Year!

[Hugo]

After checking the 1861 Census again for Owen & Mary Williams when they were living at " back of Pengwern House" I noticed that the next place was the Central Library Mostyn Street.      The Library at 44 Mostyn Street wasn't built until 1875 but I knew there was an earlier one at the Baths North Parade and the Census also showed other property in Vadre Lane which is between Upper Mostyn Street and the North Parade on the Promenade.

Anyway I called at the Archives today and found Pengwern House in the 1911 Street Index and it was at No 7 North Parade.  It was then owned by a Mrs Shaw and was apartments.  In the 1939 Street Index the name of No 7 North Parade had changed to "Shropshire Hotel"  a name I can remember from my earlier years.
No 7 is now part of the Baytree hotel and I think Pengwern House was the bit where the door on the right (of the two doors) is now. (1st photo)

Owen lived at the back of Pengwern House in Vadre Lane and the second photo is of the back of the Baytree Hotel as it is now and exactly where Owen would have lived is impossible to say now.

I had a look in the Eglwysrhos (Llanrhos)  Marriage Register for 1813-1836 but there was no entry for Owen and Cathrine (Kitty) Jones so I'm guessing that Catherine was not born in Llandudno despite what the 1851 Census says

[Hugo]

I was reading an article on Twll y Mig recently but for the life of me I can't remember where I read it.   I do know where it was according to the Census and it was  in the area to the back of the Empire Hotel

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family and to all the Williams family in the Three Towns area

[Hugo]

While I was looking for something in the Marriage Register for St George's Church  Llandudno I came across an entry for  John Owen Tudno Williams and his marriage to Margaret Hobson.
I'm not sure if Kaye and my friend Geoff  have seen the original copy so I had it photo copied just in case.   The No in the Register  is 229 and the date looks like the 11th August 1922