Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 46251 times)

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Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #180 on: July 11, 2015, 06:11:19 PM »
Okay, so we have reached the 2nd weekend of July, and it's time to look again at this subject.

Glorious weather today, not too hot, not TOO windy, so I thought I would take a look around Llandudno.
I spent 2 hours, (12.30 til 2.30pm)
In the Victoria Shopping Centre, not much evidence of shopping, and place was pretty much deserted.
I looked in the usually busy Greggs and Pound Bakery, and there was a few people, certainly not busy.
Cafe Nero had a few in, but there were only a couple in the queue and plenty of empty tables.

So, I looked further up and the Carlton was busy outside, in fact not a seat to be had.

Had lunch in Kava, very nice indeed, and they were half full inside, and similar outside.

Went back down Mostyn St to see that things were certainly less than buzzing around M&S.
Back through Victoria Centre, and was amazed how quiet it was.

Went to the Promenade, it seemed very busy.
Lots of people on benches, many with tupperware boxes. far too many of them feeding seagulls!!

I went back to the Pier, and it seemed busy, footfall seemed high.... but that was the narrow bit near the Prom entrance.
Walking back up the Pier, it was apparent that it was not busy.
I asked a few of the traders, (with many more years experience than me) what they thought.
The overwhelming message opinion was that it was unbelievably quiet, and had been all year!

By 5pm, all the gift shops were shut, including those who used to stay until 8pm as a minimum at this time of year.
It's sad to see, and it was previously unheard of.   This is July 10th!!  :o
Here is a picture taken at that time, note all the shops are shut, and the weather although overcast, was quite warm and still.





Fester...
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Michael

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #181 on: July 11, 2015, 07:14:17 PM »
   I have run summer seasonal businesses since 1962, i.e. over 50 years. Most of the time in Rhyl/Towyn but thats not much different to Llandudno for ups and downs of visitors. Depending on the calendar the 2nd and/or third week in July ALWAYS took a dip, and then full steam ahead for the big bang.

SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #182 on: July 11, 2015, 07:26:40 PM »
I had a late lunch today at Take a Break, 2.30pm very busy with full meals, steady stream coming and going, I took a walk up Upper Mostyn St. the ice cream parlour and new cafe were very busy, I get the impression if your selling food you are doing OK.
I went to the Bay this morning along the prom, it seamed busy between Rhos and the bay, plenty heading for the beach, lots of cars, no doubt with their Tupperware!  The kiosk's were full to the brim (more kiosk's?)
Sorry F. I don't know what to say........

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #183 on: July 11, 2015, 08:00:32 PM »
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   I have run summer seasonal businesses since 1962, i.e. over 50 years. Most of the time in Rhyl/Towyn but thats not much different to Llandudno for ups and downs of visitors. Depending on the calendar the 2nd and/or third week in July ALWAYS took a dip, and then full steam ahead for the big bang.

Fingers crossed then Mike.  ££$ ££$
But, deferring to those with much more experience than me, its pretty quiet.

Steve, I think the new beach in CB is most definitely contributing to the lower numbers in Llandudno.
Don't forget, families can play there all day for free, and Llandudno's beach leaves much to be desired these days.
Did you notice how easy it was to park today?

I agree Steve, food vendors are doing 'OK', but to be fair, at this time of year they should be RAKING IT IN, as they will still have their outgoings but very little income from October to March.



Fester...
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SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #184 on: July 11, 2015, 09:14:36 PM »
I walked down to Westshore later, both car parks and the road were packed.?

If you take the point that the new beach at CB is thinning the Llandudno trade, what about the other upcoming North Wales attractions , and there is a lot of talk about the regeneration of Rhyl some of it has already started.    Llandudno I am pleased to say is not an area classed as needing "regeneration"  but, it needs to find it's place in the market, and quick.
And I am sorry to keep repeating myself, but unless Llandudno businesses get organised, they will not get the support from CCBC that they need for a successful future.
Maybe the pier traders need to get together................

Wrinkly48

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #185 on: July 12, 2015, 06:51:01 AM »
A major part of the problem for the pier is the change in young people's view of entertainment - basically they need to be entertained by some stimulus but not actually do something to entertain themselves. When I was on holiday in the 50s and 60s with my parents, a walk along the pier was part of the entertainment. In those days "promenade" was a not just a place but something you did. Recently I came across photos on the web of somewhere claimed to be Rhyl in the 40s - lots of well dressed people walking along a promenade. Walking was entertainment in those days. I remember also that my parents even into the 80s saw the end of Llandudno pier as the natural place to have their picnic lunch despite the seagulls.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #186 on: July 12, 2015, 11:15:12 AM »
W48, you make a brilliant point there, and one that escaped me until now.
You see, a lot of things change subtly as you go through life, but the way kids conduct themselves, and what motivates them has changed quite markedly.

I often notice parents will have kids in tow, (very young children too), and a large percentage of those kids will have a smartphone or similar device which they are engrossed in.
One of the parents is usually similarly engaged.
I also hear the kids in the toy and joke shop referring to a product, not by what it does, or whether they want it, but by the fact some character on Family Guy or YouTube had one.

I suppose this need to entertain and motivate people extends further, (and is apparent in young adults too).
For example, even if you are willing to entertain yourself and buy a football say,  then it can't be just a regular football, it has to be the 'triple stitched, FIFA approved, extra-swerve ball, endorsed by Lionel Messi'

In mad rush to maximise profits, the Marketing folk who proliferate society these days, (in many guises), have made normality very boring.... and as W78 alludes to, made kids dis-satisfied with what we would have been very pleased with when we were kids.

How many of today's kids will be saying in 50 years time, 'Oh I remember fondly walking down the Pier with my Mum and Dad when I was a kid'    Most of them probably didn't notice it, and many of them refer to it as 'a bridge'


Fester...
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Merddin Emrys

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2015, 11:36:34 AM »
We have only been on the pier once this year and that was to see the boat at the end of the pier, I have been on it so many times over the years that the novelty has gone, something really amazing needs to be there to get our interest, no idea what, everyone would want something different! I also think that back in the Sixties everyone was a lot fitter and dare I say slimmer, so walking to the end of the pier was a regular thing to do back then. I do not recall seeing  so many wheel chairs and mobility scooters years ago?
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Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2015, 11:52:42 AM »
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A major part of the problem for the pier is the change in young people's view of entertainment - basically they need to be entertained by some stimulus but not actually do something to entertain themselves.

I'm not sure that's a new thing, to be honest. A cultural thing, perhaps, but not new. When you say "When I was on holiday in the 50s and 60s with my parents, a walk along the pier was part of the entertainment." I agree it was for you (and for me) but not for all children by a very long way. Many children in the '50s and '60s were 'latch-key kids; children who left the house after breakfast and weren't home again until 5 or 6pm.  In the cities football was the indigenous sport and many kids spent entire days and evenings (in the summer) on the streets, unsupervised and looking for things to amuse themselves. Inevitably, their idea of amusement usually wasn't that of the adults' around, and so conflict ensued.

We think children have changed but I suspect the only real change in their amusement opportunities has been in the increasingly portable nature of their entertainment. They no longer need to queue to buy records, as they did in the '50s, as they can happily carry around the electronic equivalent of a thousand records on their 'phones. Wherever they go they have access to their music and the board games which so occupied us as kids are now in electronic form.

But there is another, and I suspect more worrying mutation, and that's the paradoxical nature of 21st Century socialisation. Kids are able to conduct conversations remotely, now, and that is very new. The child fiddling with his 'phone is almost certainly not playing a game but communicating with people all over the place, some of whom he may never have met.

There have been a lot of studies into this cultural phenomenon, because its pervasive and often secretive nature concerns a lot of parents. But children do it for many reasons, one of the most compelling of which is that it makes them feel part of a group. They feel valued and as though they matter and - often - these feelings compensate for what they might be experiencing in their own families.

Parents have the biggest part to play in making children feel valued, but some parents are clueless, or might be suffering the same problems themselves. No easy answers, but not really any new problems, either. It's just very important to make kids aware they're loved. Those unloved kids with low self esteem are all too often the mothers and fathers of tomorrow. And that's another subject...
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Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #189 on: July 12, 2015, 11:56:17 AM »
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I do not recall seeing  so many wheel chairs and mobility scooters years ago?

I wonder. Years ago the mobility scooters weren't widely available, people weren't living as long and the physically disabled were often institutionalised. The disability advocacy groups have fought for years to get disabled wheelchair users accepted in mainstream society and now mobility scooters are ubiquitous.  But some of us still walk five miles every day over the mountains, so we're still keeping fit!
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

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SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #190 on: July 12, 2015, 01:03:10 PM »
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But there is another, and I suspect more worrying mutation, and that's the paradoxical nature of 21st Century socialisation. Kids are able to conduct conversations remotely, now, and that is very new. The child fiddling with his 'phone is almost certainly not playing a game but communicating with people all over the place, some of whom he may never have met.
A recent poll conducted found that a large majority of younger children, would rather use their phone than watch TV.

Quote
Parents have the biggest part to play in making children feel valued, but some parents are clueless, or might be suffering the same problems themselves. No easy answers, but not really any new problems, either. It's just very important to make kids aware they're loved. Those unloved kids with low self esteem are all too often the mothers and fathers of tomorrow. And that's another subject..

I witnessed this scene two days ago, whilst sitting in a cafe.........two women talking over coffee. engrossed to say the least, ignoring a two year old boy trying to get his mothers attention, he tried for about 10min's without even a glance from his mum, I thought poor little s** .......... then he said "I need a wee, need toilet" 2 or 3 times before she said. "it's OK go ahead you have your nappy on"  ............... :o  esteem, no chance.

Gwynant

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #191 on: July 12, 2015, 01:43:02 PM »
              Mrs. Gwynant and I walked back home after yet another excellent meal in La Taverna at about 11 pm last night and we thought it was considerably quieter in the Upper Mostyn Street bar/restaurant area than when we were last up there in May, which would seem to confirm Fester's opinion and recent "footfall" observations.

Nemesis

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #192 on: July 12, 2015, 01:57:27 PM »
If I sound old and grouchy please bear with me.

I find that many children today don't know the meaning of No or Be quiet ! We get a lot of families parking near us to take their children to the Play Centre and if these little souls don't get what they want immediately they shout over and over again until either the poor parent is free or gives in to their demands.

The phrase " ger'ere" is often used, or other more choice phrases, meanwhile the child is running in the road or prostrate on the pavement.

Help! What comes next? A mangled child or one flat out in whatever happens to be on the pavement?
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #193 on: July 12, 2015, 02:31:09 PM »
Thanks Gwynant,
Mrs F was out with a friend in town last night, and I drove down to collect her at 11pm.
Usually, on nights like that it is tricky to drive down Upper Mostyn St as hordes of folk mill around and are crossing between the pubs.
But, on a warm and still evening, there was no problem last night. 
Quite a few outside Cooney's, but all the others looked quiet.

I spoke to the Manageress of one of the better places down that strip, and they said that they are getting by on locals and regulars, but they are not seeing the numbers of out of town visitors this year.
That is in accord with what we are seeing on the Pier.

On the Pier there was always a mad busy 2 hours, 1pm til 3pm (approximately), from the day trippers, and then a lull.
Those staying longer, or in hotels would then spend money after 5pm, rather than carry things around all day.
Now, the 1pm to 3pm surge has gone, and I mean literally gone... (unless perhaps you are offering food or ice cream)

By 4.30pm, the Pier is basically deserted, and even though I hang around til 6pm, no one ever asks why everything is closed.

Now, based on Mike's vast experience, I am going to wait and see what happens next week.   I am hopeful of an upturn, although what has gone will not come back.
It is possible that the 'season' is simply getting more compressed into a shorter spell.  I have evidence from previous years sales graphs that shows that is the case anyway.   Possibly it is just more dramatic and pronounced this year?   Time will tell.




Fester...
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Nemesis

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #194 on: July 12, 2015, 03:52:35 PM »
See what you mean Fester, nice to see you and Mrs F again, but when I left you I noticed that the prom was quiet to what it can be. Large gaps between people!
Hope things pick up !
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.