Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 44516 times)

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Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2015, 05:12:02 PM »
Steve H,
You're either missing my point, or I'm making it very badly.
What I'm saying is, Upper Mostyn St, The Pier, and several other areas are DEAD by 4.30pm.
Even on a weekend, all my colleagues have been closing between 4pm and 5pm.
During the day (on weekdays) even during the 'busier' hours, you see mainly locals walking dogs, or walking to the end and back as part of their daily exercise schedule. 
That's all fine, but they used to obscured by hoards of other people, coach parties, well-heeled couples etc, and so the Pier and the areas I refer to were generally much busier.

As I write, I am on the Pier now, and I am the only kiosk open for the last hour or so.
I look around me and I can conduct a survey on the 11 or so people who are within 200 yards of me. Here goes.
2 old dears who are coughing and spluttering, whilst smoking, a good 50ft away from the designated smoking area.
3 Chinese (?) people sharing 2 ipads, and gleefully taking pictures of a seagull.
1 Man of about 22 stone in weight, who is more tattoos than human, wearing a 'Tap Out' vest and flip flops.   He is more concerned about his 2 screaming kids, and ignoring his pestering wife, (easy when you have your earphones in, as he does)
If only he would stop his kids from playing with my outside merchandise, and probably nicking it for all EITHER of us know.
'Hey Rambo.... do you mind....'    Forget it Fester, he can't hear you.

2 Eastern European girls, who look great, but I can't understand a word they are saying.  Stilettos are not the most appropriate footwear on a Victorian Pier.
1 middle aged lady, who has just popped in to my kiosk to ask where the toilets are.
1, Chap on a motability scooter who looks like he died several years ago, but no one bothered to tell him.   They have propped him up 'El Cid' like, charged him up and sent him off for the day.

A weather-beaten Fisherman, hauling off a trolley full off tackle.

A miserable looking Pier employee, realising that they have FIVE more hours of monotony to endure, before they can 'clock off'


That's it, survey complete.
I'm off to Upper Mostyn St to have a beer.... I might pop into The Snooze, .........where I can be sure of remaining unmolested by undesirables!  (unless of course Born to Run tries to come in)






Fester...
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Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2015, 06:05:42 PM »
I seem to be able to discern two points:

1.  Upper Mostyn St, The Pier, and several other areas are DEAD by 4.30pm. Presumably that excludes Upper MS on weekends after 1200 AM?

2.  (On) "the 282 person survey, I think your stats about ethnic origins will look VERY different." which seems to me to suggest your concern is about (those with varied) ethnic origins visiting the town.

Finally, your grasp on what constitutes a cross-sectional observational survey is wobbly when you say "Another criteria you neglected to put into your survey..... had they bought anything?   Were they here to contribute to the economy in any way?" because it's tricky impossible to deduce that from simple observation. But the pigeon seemed happy.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2015, 06:14:09 PM »
I have spent a lot of time thinking about  this subject and I am thunked out, maybe it is just the "changing face" of today.....and we have to change with it............. ???



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Merddin Emrys

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2015, 06:15:28 PM »
Glad the pigeon was happy. Pigeons contribute to the local economy as I buy my birdseed at the pet shop near the Nationwide! ☺ this pigeon of mine Twiglet, seems to love it!  D)
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

hollins

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #94 on: June 24, 2015, 10:17:37 PM »
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As I write, I am on the Pier now, and I am the only kiosk open for the last hour or so.
I look around me and I can conduct a survey on the 11 or so people who are within 200 yards of me. Here goes.
2 old dears who are coughing and spluttering, whilst smoking, a good 50ft away from the designated smoking area.
3 Chinese (?) people sharing 2 ipads, and gleefully taking pictures of a seagull.
1 Man of about 22 stone in weight, who is more tattoos than human, wearing a 'Tap Out' vest and flip flops.   He is more concerned about his 2 screaming kids, and ignoring his pestering wife, (easy when you have your earphones in, as he does)
If only he would stop his kids from playing with my outside merchandise, and probably nicking it for all EITHER of us know.
'Hey Rambo.... do you mind....'    Forget it Fester, he can't hear you.

2 Eastern European girls, who look great, but I can't understand a word they are saying.  Stilettos are not the most appropriate footwear on a Victorian Pier.
1 middle aged lady, who has just popped in to my kiosk to ask where the toilets are.
1, Chap on a motability scooter who looks like he died several years ago, but no one bothered to tell him.   They have propped him up 'El Cid' like, charged him up and sent him off for the day.

A weather-beaten Fisherman, hauling off a trolley full off tackle.

A miserable looking Pier employee, realising that they have FIVE more hours of monotony to endure, before they can 'clock off'




Fester, those descriptions made me laugh out loud. Brilliant!
Retirement approaching and I can recommend it.

Nemesis

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2015, 09:08:33 AM »
Fester :- You should write a book !

To sit on the prom and just watch people can be very entertaining.

Red Arrows.............. a row of people on mobility scooters trying to see who can go fastest.
The law doesn't apply to me.............people with dogs running loose
                                        .............people feeding the sea gulls thus causing a mob.
The Golightly family...........a row of huge people waddling along eating bags of chips.
Memory Foam family...........same but bigger.
Have you looked in the mirror Missis?.......... person with either boobs or knickers crutch on show.
Mutton dressed as lamb.........elderly person in tight mini skirt.
Cum'ere our so and so...........ouch, need I say more !

I could go on but probably would offend someone, so I won't !
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2015, 01:32:19 PM »
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.....which seems to me to suggest your concern is about (those with varied) ethnic origins visiting the town.


Ian,  if you go back to my original post, that is EXCACTLY what I made reference to.   
Not a concern as such, (well, I suppose it is if they tend to be 'culturally averse' to buying anything)...  it was more a statement of fact that out of the same (or less) people visiting the town, a rapidly growing proportion of them are from Asian or Eastern European ethnicity.
This isn't something that you have drawn out of me, this is precisely what I said in Post no'1

It is merely a statement of fact, and not a subject to shy away from.

This is why I chose to to name the thread 'The changing face....',  rather than anything more dramatic.

Anyway, we've gone round in a huge circle, achieved nothing, but at least used up some bandwidth.
We haven't really stimulated any kind of contentious debate, though I was hoping it would.


Hollins...... I look forward to it, IMMENSELY!  :D ;D


Fester...
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andyCYD

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2015, 01:57:43 PM »
The problem is Fester, you started this thread with facts that everyone seems to basically agree with. Hardly a good way of starting a contentious debate! Try making things up next time.

But I think you have made a very interesting and useful observation. It is not the fact that the type of visitor has changed, as that will always happen, but it is the rate of that change that is creating the challenge.

The pier is a good example. It may be the case that today's visitors don't automatically go to the pier simply because it is there, whereas visitors of the past may have done so almost with out thinking. This means they need to have a reason to go there. I have lived in Llandudno for nearly 10 years, but have probably only been on the pier 10 times. I did venture there a couple of weeks ago, walked to the end and walked back. It was nice enough, but there was nothing that really entertained, amused or interested me.  Hopefully the new owner will address this, but of course people around here are not always very keen on change.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2015, 02:02:53 PM »
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The problem is Fester, you started this thread with facts that everyone seems to basically agree with.


I dunno about that Andy,  I think Ian and Steve H went to great lengths to find a billion Google articles, surveys and reports to ensure that I started to doubt the evidence of my own eyes!
Fester...
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SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2015, 03:43:35 PM »
I saw the reference to ethnicity in the original post, but I did not feel qualified to comment, however I did treat the problem as I saw it, a lack of footfall/trade hence all the research, and I still see it that way, if the numbers are low then something has to be done to improve that, or if you had high numbers of ethnic visitors find out what they want.
Festers quote.......
"The few people who are here, are not what you would think of as the traditional seaside visitor.
The challenge is to cater for what they want to buy, if indeed they are willing (or able) to buy anything!"
Andy's quote......
"The pier is a good example. It may be the case that today's visitors don't automatically go to the pier simply because it is there, whereas visitors of the past may have done so almost with out thinking. This means they need to have a reason to go there. I have lived in Llandudno for nearly 10 years, but have probably only been on the pier 10 times. I did venture there a couple of weeks ago, walked to the end and walked back. It was nice enough, but there was nothing that really entertained, amused or interested me.  Hopefully the new owner will address this, but of course people around here are not always very keen on change."

I think Andy's comments are spot on.

The rise in Asian takeaways 6 in such a small area is worrying I still think upper Mostyn st. is perfect for a niche market in high end eateries and bars (wishful thinking)
Festers quote......
"You see there is a very different type of demographic visiting Llandudno these days, and it has accelerated in the last year.
It is a subject that is sensitive in many ways,  but it is not a subject we should be frightened of discussing."

I must be missing the point because I do not see what "we should be frightened of discussing."


Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2015, 04:56:43 PM »
That was what originally puzzled me.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2015, 05:17:01 PM »
What is puzzling about what I have said?
Sometimes, just sometimes in life, you might have to accept that people can say something, at face value.... and it doesn't need to have hidden meanings, need any further depth of research..... and that they might actually have a point!

I don't think anything I said was confusing, designed to obfuscate, or required any clarification.... but out of courtesy, I did it anyway!

Fester...
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Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2015, 10:05:36 PM »
Echoing Steve, "I do not see what "we should be frightened of discussing."".
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2015, 12:50:31 AM »
........ err? Discuss it then!

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Fester...
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wrex

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2015, 06:54:06 AM »
We have worked out that Llandudno is mad busy at weekends but seems very quiet during the week,we know the pier will become much more commercial being run by fairground people,we know CCBC will not improve our beach whatsoever,we know Mostyn estates are buying up all the empty shops,and we know nobody is prepared to invest in decent pubs in town,we have a few closed hotels ,Grand Ash,Royal etc,and of course we have town council and county councillors whom seem to have no balls and will not fight Llandudno;s corner.