Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 46209 times)

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Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2015, 05:40:35 PM »
Sheffield Hallam University Published the results of a very large statistical research project called "THE SEASIDE TOURIST INDUSTRY IN ENGLAND AND WALES". It's another lengthy read but the conclusions are interesting and, more importantly, based on published data.

"The report concludes that seaside tourism in England and Wales is by any standards a large industry. In terms of employment it is comparable to the telecommunications sector and larger than the motor industry, aerospace, pharmaceuticals or steel.

The report’s findings also explode important myths about the industry. Far from being in terminal decline as a result of the rise of foreign holidays, a substantial British seaside tourist industry remains alive and well and seems even to have been growing over the last decade. For the future, the industry has a potentially important contribution to make not only to seaside towns but also to the British economy as a whole."
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2015, 06:10:39 PM »
SHU has also published a new report in the last few months, updating that previous report. Again, the findings are interesting, but it's a lengthy read to find the detail.  The conclusions, however, remain encouraging:

"But the real world is more complex. Many people may be deeply reluctant to spend less on holidays or travel. Capital purchases such as new cars or furniture may be deferred instead. Additionally, the impact of austerity has not fallen evenly on all groups. Households with mortgages have actually benefited substantially from low interest rates, and pensions have been protected by inflation up-rating. Young adults (hit hard by unemployment) and benefit claimants (including the working poor) have arguably been the two groups facing the biggest squeeze on their incomes.
Furthermore, the new age of austerity may have actually made British seaside resorts a more attractive destination. Foreign holidays have usually been seen as a prime competitor to the British seaside, so lower incomes may mean that households still go on holiday but opt for UK destinations instead. Added to this, since 2008 the shift in the exchange rate between sterling and the euro has made a number of foreign destinations – notably Spain, Portugal, France, Italy and Greece – substantially more expensive."

The report looks at the combined population of Llandudno/Colwyn/Conwy and puts it at 68,900. Taking a lot into account their key finding is that employment in seaside tourism is estimated to be slightly higher now than before the 2008 recession and the onset of the age of austerity (started in 2008).

"That the seaside tourist industry in England and Wales appears to have weathered the post- 2008 economic downturn relatively well indicates that the downward pressures on the seaside tourist business (such as lower incomes) have in practice been more than offset by other factors (such as the cost of holidays in the eurozone). The estimates provide evidence that there is probably some substance in the much-discussed rise of ‘staycations’

These new figures, taken alongside the employment growth identified in the 2010 report, provide powerful evidence that the British seaside tourist industry is alive and well. Reports of its death, or at least its terminal decline, seem well wide of the mark."

They do say that the austerity period slowed the growth of the seaside industry but nothing more; it continues to thrive and grow, albeit slowly. But perhaps the most important finding for the three town area (based on all the data they analysed) is summed up in a sentence deep in the report:

"The Llandudno / Colwyn Bay / Conwy area in North Wales, also with 5,000 jobs, demonstrates that it remains an important magnet for visitors."



“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2015, 06:22:13 PM »
Possibly one of the most interesting observations in the report attempted to explain why Brighton has seen a significant increase, while Blackpool has lost out to the same extent. The reasons for these changes are discussed and considered in depth, but one observation which might be of particular interest to those bemoaning the closures of pubs and clubs was that the two resorts attract different types of visitor. Brighton's core business has now moved up-market to fashionable eateries, boating, sailing, etc while Blackpool still targets the young adults, party goers and thrill-seekers, the age and employment group who've taken a particular hit during the past six years in both income and benefit terms.

Similarly, the report identified other areas in the North West that had lost ground, albeit to a lesser degree, which included New Brighton, Rhyl and Prestatyn.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2015, 07:44:29 PM »
Very good find Ian,    As Jonty said earlier we need  "some serious research;" and you found it...........

I've found in the past that with all the reports and research in the world,  I feel it is still down to basics "improving what we have"  and a Town plan, bringing all businesses together and talking.

Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2015, 08:06:54 PM »
Indeed.  We have an enormous amount of tourist pulling power: beaches, castles, hills, scenery, shops and hotels - all within easy reach, but we could so much better, as Wrex is constantly saying. The visitors we're getting enjoy delightfully tended gardens and the combination of those gardens with the views from Happy Valley and the unrealised potential of live entertainment could be a game changer for comparatively little investment. The roundabouts in the town are delightful, but with just a bit more time and patience that same appearance could be extended to the Orme - arguably Llandudno's greatest asset.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

wrex

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2015, 08:40:25 PM »
Llandudno has a lot of nice restaurants which are always busy,i just called into La Taverna to book a table next week and the place is packed,the Snooze bar is doing very well so there is a need for upmarket pubs but until we get a bit more investment people will stay in their hotels like the Empire,St Georges etc,i will be honest the only pubs i go in regular are THE Snowdon,The Gresh,Cottage Loaf,The Links and now the Snooze bar which leaves a lot of places missing out on my pound coins.

Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2015, 11:45:52 PM »
I've been off the Forum for a couple of days.... so this thread took a lot of catching up on.
A lot of valid points raised, and some interesting external data presented.

A little late perhaps, but I wanted to clarify Ian's apparent confusion about why I said Upper Mostyn St was deserted.... but then I mentioned about the debris etc on Sunday mornings.
Actually, Born to Run summarised it perfectly.
You will see the bars closing early on weeknights, and bringing chair and tables in at 10pm or even earlier, because there is no one around.
On weekends, as B2R correctly says, the young folk don't leave their homes until 11pm, and they are already 'fully loaded' with alcohol from Asda/Sainsbury's that is in their price range.
So, if you wander up Upper Mostyn St at 10pm on a Saturday night you will see loads of door security staff, hardly anyone else... and you would be puzzled as to why they are needed.

Fast forward 2 hours, and the street is thronging, noisy and you can hardly move.
It stays like that until about 3am, when Zak's Kebabs and the Taxi ranks really start to make serious money.
The amount of noise, hassle and rubbish all around has to be witnessed to be believed.

I noted with interest the report outlining the differences between Brighton's increase in popularity and Blackpool's decrease.
It pointed out the different TYPE of visitor being attracted to those resorts.
As Ian rightly points out,  that is indeed the point I originally raised about Llandudno, some 66 posts ago!

I also gave a very unscientific breakdown of the percentages of those 'types' .... but that didn't draw out any debate for some reason.

Good thread this! 



 
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -



Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2015, 12:07:14 PM »
Out of interest but mainly because I was waiting for my significant other to finish shopping I sat outside St John's church and counted passers by. Here's what I observed:

Between 0935 and 0955:

282 people passed me of whom

246 were aged 50 or above
187 were Men
65 were Women
282 had ethnic origin: white
0 had any other ethnic origin
0 wore religious garb (habibs, etc)
21 were disabled or using mobility scooters
70+ were on holiday (very rough estimate based on several factors including pace of walk, whether in couples or alone, newness of footwear and summer clothes)
17 walked on their own.
1 pigeon settled next to me and seemed sleepy.

“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

DaveR

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2015, 12:10:13 PM »
Some more excellent posts in this thread, this is what the Forum is all about.  $good$

It's interesting how different people's perspectives can vary so widely, but it's also very easy to understand how this can be. Some days, the pier can be deserted whilst the town is crammed with people. Try booking a table at a popular restaurant like La Taverna or Carlos and you will really struggle. The ever increasing number of cafes around Llandudno all seem to be thriving. Expensive eateries like Osbourne House and the Seahorse are always busy. Yet, some retailers report terrible trade. The summer season seems to shrink a little every year. But the busy days are busier than ever before. It's all very confusing!

Things are changing, and will continue to do so. Are they changing for the better or worse? Depends upon your perspective. But I would say that Llandudno needs to work harder to pull in the visitors, especially those with a few pounds to spend. Visitors these days have a great deal of choice about where they visit, and everything about Llandudno needs to be first rate in order to get chosen as their destination. SteveH mentions a Business Improvement District - its an excellent idea. I've mentioned a Town Manager in the past - a motivated person that could pull together the public and private sectors could make a massive difference.

born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2015, 12:13:40 PM »
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Llandudno has a lot of nice restaurants which are always busy,i just called into La Taverna to book a table next week and the place is packed,the Snooze bar is doing very well so there is a need for upmarket pubs but until we get a bit more investment people will stay in their hotels like the Empire,St Georges etc,i will be honest the only pubs i go in regular are THE Snowdon,The Gresh,Cottage Loaf,The Links and now the Snooze bar which leaves a lot of places missing out on my pound coins.

Do you agree with the archaic 'no riff raff' sign outside the Snooze bar?

I know Llandudno is a Victorian town but no need for a Victorian attitude to customers. The Sign (in black with bold white lettering) reads....

NO WORK CLOTHES
NO HOODIES
NO BASEBALL CAPS
NO TRACKSUITS
NO VESTS / FOOTBALL TOPS
NO BUGGIES / PRAMS
NO DOGS
NO BLACKS NO IRISH

I made the last one up, but the others are genuine  ???

Are they for real  &shake& The top restaurants in London don't have a dress code as it's old fashioned!

Merddin Emrys

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2015, 12:39:08 PM »
Is it for naturists?
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Greyhound

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2015, 01:17:47 PM »
To be honest, after having spent an evening in The Lilly and seeing how far downmarket it has come in terms of decor and clientele since it was Fat Cats, I am quite glad that somewhere wants to keep up standards. I'd rather have at least one place free of the local hard nuts, who always look like they're one accidental bad look away from starting on someone, and their equally as scary girlfriends.

born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »
Don't judge a book by it's cover.  &shake&



unless it's a book cover contest and you're the judge of course

There are plenty of thugs sporting shirts and ties.

SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2015, 02:20:40 PM »
Slightly off topic but very positive..........I found this by accident, from Kent online ?..........

If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
That’s not Llandudno’s motto but when you’ve got something beautiful there’s not a lot of point making changes.
The Victorian facade that overlooks the beach of this well-known North Wales seaside town would probably be just as it was in 1947 when my grandparents honeymooned here.
But Llandudno was attracting people long before that.
It was a favourite holiday-haunt of the Liddells, whose young daughter was Lewis Carroll’s inspiration for his much-loved children’s book, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland.

While children can follow a trail of statues across town, depicting characters from Carroll’s story, adults can enjoy afternoon tea in the same hotel where Alice Liddell and her family holidayed back in 1861.
The seafront St Tudno Hotel, a grand establishment, is one of only two places in Wales awarded the Tea Guild Award of Excellence.
It wasn’t just us who were impressed. Travel writer Bill Bryson described Llandudno as his favourite seaside resort, and of the hotel he said: “It is the snug bar and outstanding restaurant that will bring me back.”

We stayed just around the corner, in Holcombe House. Owners Tony and Karen Fulker couldn’t have been more welcoming and we weren’t being singled out for favour either. Karen was picking up guests from the train station as we arrived.
Llandudno can be reached direct from London Euston in just over three hours.
It was the Fulker's keenness to go the extra mile – literally – that set Holcombe House apart from so many other places we’ve stayed in.
The accommodation was spotless, the breakfast as hearty as you could stomach and the place was peaceful – something many big hotels bizarrely neglect.

Llandudno rarely gets frost and the hills which sit either side of the town are a natural protection from the worst weather. Great Orme overlooks the town, reaching 679 feet and providing amazing views.
With the sun shining, Llandudno’s pier offered us the seaside entertainment you would expect – arcades, ice-creams, the smell of the sea. But this is no Skegness. You won’t find row after row of flashing neon signs and “kiss me quick” hats. It’s there if you want it, but not in your face.


Llandudno itself isn’t short of eating places. If you like Emmerdale you may have wondered what happened to Cain Dingle’s mum Faith. Well, actress Gillian Jephcott is now running the Seahorse restaurant with husband Don, the chef.
The seafood is what Gill and Don pride themselves on and what has won them awards. The baked hake with thermidor sauce, which I sampled, was excellent. The restaurant is a minute's walk from the seafront and has daily fish specials.
We left the town well fed and with plenty of happy memories – almost 70 years after my grandparents and 150 years after the Liddells.
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Greyhound

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »
I wasn't judging a book by its cover, I was talking from my own personal experience of nights out in Llandudno.