Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 107771 times)

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Offline wrex

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2015, 09:02:56 am »
The Lauriston court group seem to have a good idea what they are doing in the hotel side investing in 3 hotels,good write up in Sunday Times today.

Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2015, 12:44:33 pm »
The changing face of retailing in the UK

Britain has been affectionately known as  a nation of shop keepers and shoppers but is this traditional image changing? Have we all gone on line or perhaps moderated our expenditure in line with Government rhetoric or pleas to save?  Indeed a walk around  some towns and cities might suggest Britons are falling out of favour with shopping, with boarded up shops and low footfall. Is this true? Despite dire predictions we have actually been involved with clients expanding their retail foot print through out the UK albeit in many cases, as one aspect only of their "multi channel" offer.

In some cases and areas of the United Kingdom  there is clearly an oversupply of retail space given a lot of new shopping developments have added huge amounts of new space to an already well provided market. In other areas, rather than a death of the retail shop, I think we are seeing a change in the dynamics of the retail shopping experience to a more leisure based focus which is driven increasingly by location. This not perhaps something new but rather an acceleration of trends from the 20th century.

Going forward there is increasing evidence that retail centres, be it shopping centres or high streets, which are linked to leisure and tourism, will do better than those which are not. We are seeing this with increased retail space being let to food and leisure providers in major centres and the rise of large multi location retail restaurant chains.

The other trend, which is noticeable, is the multi channel approach, that is combining online sales with large branded stores and click and collect, which has altered the dynamic of what "national coverage" might look like. Traditionally to get national coverage one may have needed more than 350 stores but these days can one do it with say 125 stores in key locations. We are also I think seeing, within this change, a change in the nature of the shops as the internet picks up sales of products which it is not fun to shop for.

I think therefore going forward we are going to see our retailing driven by experience and more part of an overall leisure delivery. Whilst we are seeing a change in lease terms, in shorter leases and break options and other changes, the cost of fitting out retail shops actually means that most retail decisions are often on a longer term basis than the short lease and, as such, getting the location correct in this new dynamic will remain key.

In short we are living through a shift in retail provision which I suspect has quite a way to go and will see more changes of where and how we shop.
http://www.morton-fraser.com/knowledge-hub/changing-face-retailing-uk


This is a long read only for those interested in retail sales.
http://www.experian.co.uk/assets/business-strategies/white-papers/RWC-whitepaper2.pdf


Offline Jonty Hammers

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2015, 12:57:41 pm »
With the greatest respect to some of the people posting here (know that's always a very guarded preamble!) but much of what's been said has largely been anecdotal. And the general thrust is that things are going more downmarket; people are spending less; the stuff they're buying is the tattier end of the market etc.

But I might counter - again, purely through anecdotal experience - that a number of more middle-class, upmarket establishments have cropped up in the town in the past few years. There's a v. nice chocolatiers on Madoc Street, shops like Viyella and Cotton Traders aren't exactly cheap (though people will shop at them), Characters Tea Rooms up top of town is a pleasant "vintage" tea rooms which will cater to people who fancy something like a silver service rather than a bog-standard cuppa but don't fancy spending ridiculous amounts in a hotel. And let's not forget Caffe Nero and Starbucks have both come to the town in recent years - both popular but neither are exactly cheap.

The problem with me citing this as hard-and-fast evidence that Llandudno is going upmarket is that it stands in complete contrast to the experiences of other people who have seen the exact opposite - thus, the whole thing becomes a "he-said-she-said" trade of anecdotes, which doesn't advance the debate any further.

In order for us to have any kind of reasonable debate about this, we need some decent data, not just the personal experiences of us few as people who either live in the town or visit on a regular basis. I've tried to have a search through stuff collected by Conwy and the Tourism Information Service, Visit Wales etc but it's difficult to find anything useful. People's individual experiences, for all their worth, can often be limited and coloured by confirmation bias and the myriad variations of time, circumstance and condition.

Is there anyone who might know where that sort of information is available? SOMEONE must be monitoring these trends - I don't doubt there's some body or other out there paid to do it.

Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2015, 01:54:36 pm »
It's not just the changing face of Llandudno, national figures are all saying the same, most of us are spending less today than we where 10 years ago (general recession) and our needs have changed, so business has to change too.

I still think Llandudno is doing well........... $good$

Offline Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2015, 03:38:13 pm »
Quote
In order for us to have any kind of reasonable debate about this, we need some decent data, not just the personal experiences of us few as people who either live in the town or visit on a regular basis.

As you might imagine, I agree with you completely. But I suspect the key to the debate lies in this phrase of Fester's:

Quote
I once again point out that it is a different TYPE of visitor that we are seeing these days.

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2015, 04:33:45 pm »
Quote
In order for us to have any kind of reasonable debate about this, we need some decent data, not just the personal experiences of us few as people who either live in the town or visit on a regular basis.
As you might imagine, I agree with you completely. But I suspect the key to the debate lies in this phrase of Fester's:
Quote
I once again point out that it is a different TYPE of visitor that we are seeing these days.

Found the comments on Tripadvisor ....pier.... interesting
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g190724-d1809504-Reviews-Llandudno_Pier-Llandudno_Conwy_County_North_Wales_Wales.html


Offline snowcap

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2015, 09:14:51 pm »
The reason the pressies have been dropped is the fact that the place is much more accessible in this day and age and more and more people get to visit due to the better road and transport conditions. Getting home in the old days along the coast road could take up to 4 or 5 hours in days gone bye, and as result folk made a visit maybe once every few years , so to show they had been they would take a present from llandudno. not so today they are here and back in half the time and so make more visits if they like the place. we see much more of Britain in this day and age and more people than ever are visiting different places.

Offline born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2015, 12:25:16 pm »
Well, I don't have access to a raft of figures and data, as you may expect.
Nor would I be that interested in reading them, anyone with a pair of eyes  8) can see, as Fester correctly said, that upper Mostyn Street is a ghost street in the evenings between Monday and Friday.

Why? I'll tell you why. Pub/Club goers in the main now only go out on Saturday nights. About 10/15 years  ago the price between what the pubs in Llandudno charge for a drink and what supermarkets charge was not vastly different. It was about £5 for a six pack and about £2 a pint. Nowadays it's still around a fiver for a six pack in supermarkets but in the pubs it's around £3.80 - £4.50 a pint. We also had a smoking ban. We also had a reason to go out Wednesday/Thursday/Friday nights - Wednesdays Broadway Boulevard ran a successful night aimed at the over 30s - Thursdays was a successful gay friendly night at the Wash, and Fridays at both the Wash and Broadway was a night geared towards hard dance music. All of these brought people out on those nights, you would notice the other pubs in town being busy from people going there for a warm up first.

Nowadays the 'warm ups' are done at home on cheap supermarket beer, and the night people go out on is Saturday (because nobody goes out on the other nights because it is 'dead') 

That is why as referenced in Fester's photo, the street is empty. Where as ten years back it would have been heaving.

Offline Cambrian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2015, 12:57:37 pm »
Slightly off-topic but relevant to B2R's post.  If you use the Albert and are a CAMRA member, you get 20p a pint off cask ales.  I rarely pay more that £3.30 a pint there.

Offline born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2015, 02:16:04 pm »
 $good$

http://www.camra.org.uk/benefits

"£20 worth of JD Wetherspoon real ale vouchers"

I may be tempted to join  ZXZ

Offline Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2015, 02:57:43 pm »
Quote
Pub/Club goers in the main now only go out on Saturday nights. About 10/15 years  ago the price between what the pubs in Llandudno charge for a drink and what supermarkets charge was not vastly different. It was about £5 for a six pack and about £2 a pint. Nowadays it's still around a fiver for a six pack in supermarkets but in the pubs it's around £3.80 - £4.50 a pint. We also had a smoking ban.

The UK government and Police services have both been urging increases in the cost of alcohol and actively increasing taxes to raise that cost to achieve precisely the effect you're illustrating. And the smoking ban can only be considered a good thing by most.

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2015, 04:01:37 pm »
Some comments found while searching this subject................


"Four decades ago, UK residents made 6.7 million holiday trips abroad, but by 2008 that figure was 45.5 million"

"We have also moved away from factory work. In 1978, the manufacturing sector accounted for nearly three in 10 (28.5 per cent) jobs around the UK, but this had fallen by 2009 to one in 10 (10 per cent), the lowest proportion since records began"

"spending a fifth of the household income on food (whereas these days, your biggest expenditure will be on energy bills, probably for all those gadgets you own)"
“trades fortnight” two weeks in the summer when tradesmen take their holidays.
Although a strong tradition during the 19th and 20th centuries, the observance of the holiday has almost disappeared in recent times due to the decline of the manufacturing industries in the United Kingdom and the standardisation of school holidays across England.

"In recent years, Great Yarmouth has seen huge regeneration projects to breathe new life back into a town that never stopped being a popular destination but which needed modernisation and refurbishment. With perfect timing, the British seaside holiday has recently come back into vogue."

"passion and affection the opulence and splendour of Victorian and Edwardian piers, winter gardens
Thus, 'Seaside Environments' covers interesting ground, discussing attempts to regulate resorts, battles with the sea through expensive sea defences, endeavours to manage traditional seaside economies and lifestyles,   Walton places particular emphasis on the 'degradation of the built environment' with architecture losing its distinctiveness, emblems of seaside pleasures demolished or allowed to decay,"   MORE BELOW


Another long read but very interesting....................................
The British Seaside: Holidays and Resorts in the Twentieth Century   John K. Walton
Manchester, Manchester University Press, 2000, ISBN:
http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/233


Offline born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2015, 04:15:57 pm »
Quote
Pub/Club goers in the main now only go out on Saturday nights. About 10/15 years  ago the price between what the pubs in Llandudno charge for a drink and what supermarkets charge was not vastly different. It was about £5 for a six pack and about £2 a pint. Nowadays it's still around a fiver for a six pack in supermarkets but in the pubs it's around £3.80 - £4.50 a pint. We also had a smoking ban.

The UK government and Police services have both been urging increases in the cost of alcohol and actively increasing taxes to raise that cost to achieve precisely the effect you're illustrating. And the smoking ban can only be considered a good thing by most.

I never said it wasn't a good thing, or went into any reasoning for the cost as it's irrelevant.
I was simply saying that is the reason Llandudno pub trade is lower than it has ever been and certainly much lower than 10/15 years ago. You make an interesting point though,  I would argue that the government and police tactics have not worked or done any good in the slightest. People are still drinking just as much as they were and causing just as much trouble, and getting just as ill, but they are giving the money from their debauchery to Walmart and not their local landlord. That's all that has changed.

Offline born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2015, 04:18:40 pm »
I'll reply to Ian, and his condescending (and mildly offensive) post... and then I'll leave this thread alone.
There really is no point in raising any issues on this Forum, because Ian, like a playground bully,

Most bullied man on the internet 2015  _))*

 :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:

Offline Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2015, 05:35:42 pm »
Quote
the standardisation of school holidays across England.

That's interesting. Last week in July and first in August - what used to be the 'factory fortnight' of old - still see a pretty significant number of visitors, partly, I suspect, because it's only those first two weeks that are still completely free of anything education-related. By the second / third weeks of August GCSE and A level results are being released and the chase for Uni or FE college places begins in earnest. That ties up parents of children aged 15/16 and 17+.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.