Author Topic: The Changing Face of Llandudno  (Read 108013 times)

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Online Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #135 on: June 29, 2015, 08:39:52 am »
Following some of Steve's links this proved interesting:

"Daniel Burdsey:
Sure, seaside locations remain overwhelmingly white places. [There's] a number of reasons for this, I think. Traditionally minority ethnic communities have lived in urban locations of the bigger towns and cities and we can trace that back to the mass migrations of the 1950s and '60s to places of industry.

Laurie Taylor:
And in many cases, of course, they're coming in and arriving and joining families who already are living in urban locations, aren't they, because of the work?

Daniel Burdsey:
Absolutely, absolutely. And more peripheral coastal locations tend to have relatively immobile populations who tend to live for generations without perhaps moving in or out.

There's also an over-representation of older populations which does tend to contribute to a whiter demographic in these places. Sign welcoming visitors to Brighton and Hove Welcome to Brighton for everyone?

Laurie Taylor:
And you'd want to say, I think, that at the coast or in seaside towns there's an association somehow between being in a seaside town, being by the sea, and what people who are perhaps white feel about national identity - this place is somehow 'for' them?

Daniel Burdsey:
Yes, I think you're right. I think the seaside is still embedded in aspects of the national psyche and survey evidence suggests that people do still closely associate the seaside with aspects of national identity.

I think there's a geographical issue here: the coast or the seaside is literally a place on the edge, the edge of the nation, it's a finite border and so it's habitually associated with notions of invasion and defence - both the white cliffs of Dover are the...

Laurie Taylor:
And it fits nicely. It just suddenly came to me this, that [I think] Paul Theroux wrote about the number of sort of Brits who go and drive their cars to the edge of the country and sit there staring out to sea, which he said, really they are imaginatively seeing themselves as the old imperialist, they see themselves, like their ancestors, sailing away. Possibly, that's a bit fanciful but anyway...

Very interestingly though, after having analysed the demographic facts of this, you turned to the ways in which really the social attractions of seaside towns [are], if you like,[...] white attractions.

Daniel Burdsey:
Yes, I identified a number of themes within the seaside amusements and entertainments and other aspects of popular culture and the things I identified, firstly, was the way in which these amusements and entertainments promote and exoticised and/or orientalist representation of the ethnic or racial other;

The way in which representations of white bodies are juxtaposed against black ones;

And finally the way in which seaside amusements and entertainments engage in ideas of exploring and conquering sort of non-Western primitive landscapes, whether that be the jungle or the wild west or ancient Egypt.

Laurie Taylor:
So a lot of these old amusements, these arcades, these museums, these galleries or whatever, in many cases black faces are absent, but if they're present they're present in a rather stereotypical fashion?

Daniel Burdsey:
Absolutely. I mean there's strong historical reference to this, you can trace this back...

Laurie Taylor:
But I suppose many people listening would say well it's a lot of old kitsch and it's stuck there and no doubt it has some of these resonances, I mean would you want to say however, if people came to look at this they would feel themselves sort of absent or would they feel themselves offended by it?

Daniel Burdsey:
I think the bottom line is that most people engaging in seaside leisure, entertainments, amusements perhaps don't appreciate the signifying attributes of these things. It is a place for fantasy, of fun, adventure, escapism but I think just because they don't perhaps have these sort of functioning connotations for people we shouldn't ignore the sort of....

Laurie Taylor:
Are we talking about attraction or repulsion? That black people decide that they don't want to go to places like this because they feel of them as white, or do you feel that the sort of white people there are actively hostile?

When you've looked at these towns are there other aspects of those towns and the way they behave, the political decisions they make, which suggests to you that really there is some ideology lurking behind these representations?

Daniel Burdsey:
I think that might be a tenuous link.

I think the issue around the way in which these environments are racialised from the sort of subsequent research is more about the sort of control and dominance of social space with certain parts of seafronts, towns, being seen as sort of safer spaces and others not.

But what was clear I think which came out of this and some of the subsequent research is that what is often seen as innocent tradition for some people can actually have quite racialised and excluding connotations for other groups.

Professor Laurie Taylor (Guest), Dr Daniel Burdsey (University of Brighton) "
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

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Offline DaveR

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #136 on: June 29, 2015, 09:28:26 am »
  Not to mention Greece.
  As to charging a fee to walk on the pier. This is not unknown. I am reasonably sure the North pier in Blackpool has a charge, if only at peak times. I also have a very, very vague idea that there might have been a charge at Llandudno many years ago, and I also seem to have a feeling that you had to pay if you wanted access past the toll keeper beyond the Grand Hotel, but you could walk on for free from the entrance that took you past the arcades and the pavilion. Have I dreamt this? Or maybe told this as a child as to how things used to be? I'm not at all sure.
North Pier used to charge 50p to walk on the pier, this was withdrawn in 2012 when new owners took over. There have been charges at Llandudno Pier since it was built, they ended in the 1980s, I think, by which time you only had to pay to walk down the main neck of the pier.


Offline DaveR

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #137 on: June 29, 2015, 09:35:14 am »
The visitors themselves are coming in great numbers from the caravan sites near Towyn, Rhyl etc... but they actually LIVE FULL TIME in those caravans.   
Across the UK, due to high rents and mortgages, many caravan parks which used to cater for holidays are now purely used as accommodation for families on benefits.  The owners of these caravan parks are able to command very high rents from the DSS, and are guaranteed income all year round.
Are they living in those caravans illegally? I believe caravans can only be occupied for 10 months a year maximum. Why doesn't the DSS just refuse to pay Housing Benefit to Caravan Parks, as they are not considered suitable permanent accommodation.

Offline SDQ

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #138 on: June 29, 2015, 10:35:27 am »
The visitors themselves are coming in great numbers from the caravan sites near Towyn, Rhyl etc... but they actually LIVE FULL TIME in those caravans.   
Across the UK, due to high rents and mortgages, many caravan parks which used to cater for holidays are now purely used as accommodation for families on benefits.  The owners of these caravan parks are able to command very high rents from the DSS, and are guaranteed income all year round.
Are they living in those caravans illegally? I believe caravans can only be occupied for 10 months a year maximum. Why doesn't the DSS just refuse to pay Housing Benefit to Caravan Parks, as they are not considered suitable permanent accommodation.


To be fair some of these caravans are vastly better than some damp & dingy bedsit provided by a slum landlord.
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Offline Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #139 on: June 29, 2015, 01:05:16 pm »
The visitors themselves are coming in great numbers from the caravan sites near Towyn, Rhyl etc... but they actually LIVE FULL TIME in those caravans.   
Across the UK, due to high rents and mortgages, many caravan parks which used to cater for holidays are now purely used as accommodation for families on benefits.  The owners of these caravan parks are able to command very high rents from the DSS, and are guaranteed income all year round.
Are they living in those caravans illegally? I believe caravans can only be occupied for 10 months a year maximum. Why doesn't the DSS just refuse to pay Housing Benefit to Caravan Parks, as they are not considered suitable permanent accommodation.

There was a BBC1 Documentary, Panorama special about this only recently.
It focused on Canvey Island and the S.East of England.  It was frightening really, and a really awful standard of living for those trapped there.   Visiting cameramen and journalists were roughly deterred from snooping around.
Residents who spoke to the programme were told they would be kicked out of the only 'home' they had.
Whilst ideally a caravan park might not be 'suitable', there is a chronic housing shortage, and property owners and caravan park owners are taking FULL advantage of it.
Fester...
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Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #140 on: June 29, 2015, 02:38:27 pm »
Numbers are up..spending is down.....

Regardless of the family income, (lower or middle income,) Recession or not, I think todays families have different priorities on spending.....

Mobile phones......
More than half of all U.S. cellphone owners carry a device like the iPhone, a shift that has unsettled household budgets across the country. Government data show people have spent more on phone bills over the past four years, even as they have dialed back on dining out, clothes and entertainment—cutbacks that have been keenly felt in the restaurant, apparel and film industries.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444083304578018731890309450

More than a million British kids get first mobile phone by the time they’re five.
Parents spend an average £246 on their own handsets, compared to £125 on their children’s – but more than one in ten kids under 16 (15%) have mobiles worth more than their parents’
http://www.uswitch.com/media-centre/2013/08/more-than-a-million-british-kids-get-first-mobile-phone-by-the-time-theyre-five

The average Brit blows £416 a year on lottery and scratchcards, not to mention on line bingo etc.

Monthly TV Deals (Sky)......Internet connections ......Smokers min. £6.00 Pkt.....drugs? ?.

I am sure I have missed other costs, but it does show a difference between todays visitor and those of 10 years ago.   


Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #141 on: June 30, 2015, 07:05:09 pm »
Welsh day trip spending surges by 20%

Welsh tourism had a flying start to 2015 with day trip spending surging by 20%.
Official figures published by the Welsh Government show that the tourism industry in Wales had a fantastic first quarter following a record breaking 2014.

The figures for the Great Britain Day Visits survey from January – April, including the Easter holidays, show that 23 million tourism day visits were made by British residents to destinations in Wales during the first quarter of 2015, generating expenditure of £750 million.

This expenditure is up 20% on the same period last year and Wales’ share of all tourism day visits made by British residents to destinations in Great Britain in the first four months of 2015 was also up on last year.

The results from the Great Britain Tourism Survey also show 7% increase in overnight stays in Wales from GB visitors during first quarter of 2015 while expenditure is 32% up.

Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, Ken Skates, said: “Following a record breaking year in 2014 we are working with the industry to sustain these excellent figures.
"It is therefore very encouraging that figures from the first quarter are positive, especially as these figures include the Easter period, which is a busy start to the season for the industry. Tourism is in a strong position.

Deputy culture and tourism minister Ken SkatesDeputy culture and tourism minister Ken Skates
"Last year, our UK and Ireland campaign generated £238 million increase in additional expenditure to the Welsh economy, up 36 % on the previous year.
"Initial results for this year’s campaign are already very promising, showing an 80% increase in unique visitors to visitwales.com during the first quarter of 2015.”

Figures from sites under the care of Cadw are also showing encouraging signs of growth for early 2015.
Research has recently been carried out by Cadw to gain a better understanding of visitors to its sites during this shoulder season.
The research has shown that 43% of shoulder season visitors are Welsh residents, compared with 24 % in the peak season.

The visitor survey also noted that a visit to a Cadw site often exceeds expectations, 66% visitors say their experience at a Cadw attraction was better than what they expected.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/welsh-day-trip-spending-surges-9558635

Offline Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #142 on: July 01, 2015, 12:58:24 pm »
That report does not ring true with what is being experienced in Llandudno.

However, I do agree that there are so many new attractions in N Wales, and these will be receiving new visitors, (and new money) to the detriment of Llandudno.

The beach in Colwyn Bay for example, was a masterstroke, and families would much rather spend a relaxing day there.
The beach in Llandudno is now officially appalling.
The Zip wire and various 'adventure' destinations are excellent, and are taking money never before spent in N Wales.
The Haven holiday camps, and attractions in the Towyn area have never been busier.

Llandudno appears to be getting left behind in several respects.

What is new here?   What is more attractive than it used to be?     

I firmly believe that a spanking new leisure facility on the site of the Pier Pavilion is now pivotal to the town's regeneration as the premier tourist destination.
Fester...
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Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #143 on: July 01, 2015, 01:34:30 pm »
Quote
Quote
I firmly believe that a spanking new leisure facility on the site of the Pier Pavilion is now pivotal to the town's regeneration as the premier tourist destination.

What are the chances of the new pier owners taking that on as well. ?.........

Offline born2run

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #144 on: July 01, 2015, 02:14:03 pm »
A takeover of that s**** Grand Hotel by a family friendly leisure company (eg Haven)
With dedicated evening entertainment for families and a new complex built on the wreck next door for the daytime.  $good$
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 04:04:02 pm by Ian »

Offline Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #145 on: July 01, 2015, 02:20:03 pm »
Quote
Quote
I firmly believe that a spanking new leisure facility on the site of the Pier Pavilion is now pivotal to the town's regeneration as the premier tourist destination.

What are the chances of the new pier owners taking that on as well. ?.........

0%
Fester...
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Offline SteveH

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #146 on: July 01, 2015, 03:05:16 pm »
A takeover of that s***** Grand Hotel by a family friendly leisure company (eg Haven)
With dedicated evening entertainment for families and a new complex built on the wreck next door for the daytime. 

A great idea.......... $good$.........................So that's a NO then Fester... ;)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 04:04:55 pm by Ian »

Offline Fester

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #147 on: July 01, 2015, 03:24:53 pm »
A takeover of that s***** Grand Hotel by a family friendly leisure company (eg Haven)
With dedicated evening entertainment for families and a new complex built on the wreck next door for the daytime. 

A great idea.......... $good$.........................So that's a NO then Fester... ;)

0.000%     A resounding NO.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 04:05:16 pm by Ian »
Fester...
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Online Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #148 on: July 01, 2015, 04:18:09 pm »
Just a quick interjection to request members don't attempt to circumvent the censored words setting by using numbers. Using offensive language in here is not allowed as it's an open forum and children have free and unfettered access to it. This condition forms part of the membership agreement:

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You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any United Kingdom laws.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

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Online Ian

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Re: The Changing Face of Llandudno
« Reply #149 on: July 01, 2015, 04:20:24 pm »
Quote
That report does not ring true with what is being experienced in Llandudno.

Well, the roads out of town to the A55 in late afternoon on a fine day are sometimes almost gridlocked.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.