Author Topic: Daviies Family  (Read 89393 times)

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Offline Fester

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2015, 06:56:04 pm »
Hugo,  I received a visitor whilst at work today, he can shed light on this subject.
He says you are frustratingly close on this thread, but he likened it to bouncing off the wire at darts!   Oooh so close!

I have his number, but he didn't want to post online.... so if you email me, I will give you his number, and you could call him to discover what he has to say on this subject.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2015, 10:13:15 pm »
Thank you very much Fester, that's really good of you and I'll send a PM.      I've also been given a name and a number by my cousin but haven't been able to follow it up yet but will do asap.      $good$


Offline DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2015, 10:32:41 am »
Thank you Fester and Hugo.

The match (#25) that you thought was a possibility is one I have looked at previously. There is a 1901 record for this William Davies which is quite separate from the 1901 William Davies record based in Llandudno.

I am intrigued by the last two responses from Fester and yourself.  Hopefully someone will provide the proverbial "missing link".

From a pure research perspective,  the Birth Certificate I received recently shows William Davies as having a birth date in November 1885. It would seem that most Census collections are made early in the year ~ April.  When birth years are shown, it seems that the calculation is simply the current age at the time of the Census subtracted from the Year of the Census.  This being the case then any reference to William Davies (born in November) would be 1876, not 1875.

Looking at the list of 106 possibilities published previously, there is no match based on this premise.

I am beginning to doubt whether the 1901 Census record I have been relying on (particularly the Llansaintffraid birth place) is the correct one. I will investigate whether the link to #25 1891 record is a more probable one. Although this link does provide a Father record.  AAARRRGGGGHH!!!


Offline Fester

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2015, 11:29:01 am »
Hugo, if you enable the email link in your profile,  you can email me directly...
The chap who visited me, (I have his name, but he might not appreciate me posting it here) seemed a very genuine chap, who had gone a long way out of his way to find me, to pass this message to you.
I think it is well worth following up.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2015, 11:31:42 am »
Hugh, just a pointer.   The birth certificate for William shows his birth as 13th NOV 1875.   The next Census and the first one he would appear on is 1881.
This Census was completed on the 3rd April 1881 and William was 5 on that date as his 6th birthday would have been on 13th Nov 1881 after the Census date,
This ties in exactly with the William living at Brickfields with his Grandparents so we are still on the right track.
No 25 on that list you provided is the only one that matches all the boxes,  there is no other entry that comes anywhere close.   He is your William.
I am waiting for a reply to my PM to Fester and will follow that up with interest.   I have also received a PM from my cousin and as a result I will phone the person who may hold info that may help in the search.  I won't do that until I get a reply from Fester though.
Please recheck your dates and they should match with what I've said above
The birth place of William at Llansanffraid is correct so concentrate on that but bear in mind the names that it can be called.  the full title is Llansanffraid Glan Conway, but it may appear as  Llansanffraid or just Glan Conway

When the Census forms are undertaken, they are done in areas like townships.   Trallwyn is one of those and as the only name I knew there in the 1871 was a William Davies who lived at Trallwyn Farm I decided to go all the way through the 500 plus entries.
Unfortunately it didn't cover the area of Llan in the middle of Glan Conway village.
The reason I did this was because I just had a hunch that Elizabeth the domestic servant may have been the housekeeper for the widower William (surname not known) and your Grandfather may have been the result.
I need the name of some one living in Llan in 1871 before I can do a similar search again.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2015, 11:34:45 am »
Hugo, if you enable the email link in your profile,  you can email me directly...
The chap who visited me, (I have his name, but he might not appreciate me posting it here) seemed a very genuine chap, who had gone a long way out of his way to find me, to pass this message to you.
I think it is well worth following up.

Thanks Fester, I've done that and hope that it works.  The PM is on it's way

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2015, 12:12:15 pm »
Hugo, if you enable the email link in your profile,  you can email me directly...
The chap who visited me, (I have his name, but he might not appreciate me posting it here) seemed a very genuine chap, who had gone a long way out of his way to find me, to pass this message to you.
I think it is well worth following up.

Thanks Fester, I've done that and hope that it works.  The PM is on it's way

I've received the PM so thank you very much for going to the trouble of contacting me.  I'll follow it up asap

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2015, 02:01:20 pm »
Just reread this thread and Cambrian at the top of pg 6 has actually provided the names of two people living in or near the Llan area of Glan Conway.     They are David Wynne and his wife Margaret (nee Davies and possibly William's Aunt)
Don't know when I can get to the Library to do that search that I referred to.   It will involve looking for Elizabeth Davies there and seeing if there is also a widower called William living at that address.
It's time consuming, but the process needs to be done to eliminate  this from the search.

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2015, 05:08:43 pm »
Hugo

If it helps, the 1871 Census shows Trallwyn as having a William Davies as head.  He is a 36 year old farmer and he has a wife, Hannah, also 36.  They have a fairly large household (his mother, several children, servants and a nurse) but no Elizabeth Davies.

There are numerous descendants of David and Margaret Wynne living in Llandudno.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2015, 08:07:17 pm »
Thanks Cambrian,  that was the William Davies that I was using to search through every household in that area but unfortunately the Census didn't cover the area of Llan.
Frustratingly too is that William Davies the head  had a son also called William and in the 1891 Census the son was a boot/shoe maker but he can be discounted.
I'll use Margaret and David Wynne to gain access to the 1871 Census but don't know when I'll be able to go to the Library next.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2015, 11:22:46 pm »
Hugh,  I have no access to Census records at the moment and don't know when I'll be able to go to the library to search either.
I wonder if you can do me a favour and search the 1841 and 1851 Census records for me using this criteria:-
1851 Census
Edward Davies   Head   born Eglwysbach  Denbighshire about 1812
Margaret Davies wife     born Eglwysbach  Denbighshire about 1817
Margaret Davies daughter  born Llandudno  Caernarvonshire about 1846

1841   Census
Edward Davies            same details as above
Margaret Davies wife   same details as above

The Census records will be carried out in the Conway District in Caernarvonshire and I expect that the addresses when you find them will be in the Parish of Eglwysrhos

What I want to find out are  the addresses where they are living and who is living there for those years.

I'll explain if you get that info for me.       

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #131 on: February 22, 2015, 03:55:26 pm »
It's ok Hugh, I don't need you to look for that info for me now.   I've done a small subscription and found Edward & Margaret Davies in the 1851 Census living at Marl Bach in Eglwysrhos.
I can't find them in the 1841 Census though but I don't really need that info now.  There was an Edward & Margaret Davies who married in 1840 in the Llanrwst Registration District as they both lived in Eglwys Bach at the time and they may be your G G Grandparents.
I'll post something on here later as I'm just going out for a while

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #132 on: February 22, 2015, 05:37:33 pm »
The name I was given by Fester and my cousin turned out to be the same person.  He has been reading the thread on the Davies family and was very kind enough to share the information with me.  On Friday I phoned up and had a very interesting and fascinating chat with him.   The information hasn’t enabled me to trace William between  1881 to 1901 but has given me a wealth of information about William’s direct family that Hugh will appreciate down there in Oz.
The Davies family is a large family of a mainly farming background and the family had many farms in the local area.  That area is in the eastern part of the present day Llandudno Junction but in those early days before the railway came Llandudno Junction didn’t exist.  Instead there were townships of Marl, Pensarn and Pabo and others too.    The Davies had a number of farms in very close proximity,  Marl Farm,  Marl Bach, Maes  Glas ,  Esgyryn Farm  and the Pensarn Farm ( another topic on this forum)
I was told that the Davies’ owned and run the farms, the biggest and main one being Marl Farm.      I’ve just found the info I wanted from the 1851 Census and Edward & Margaret were living at Marl Bach then as they were in the 1861 Census.     As far as I can ascertain they didn’t ever live in any of the other farms mentioned above so I’m assuming that it was Marl Bach  that was commonly known in Welsh as Ty Saith Chwaer  ( house of the seven sisters) on account of the fact that all seven sisters lived there.   I was told that some of the sisters may have married into farming backgrounds as was the practise then and one of the farms was Fferm Bach in Llandudno while another may have been Pyllau Farm on the Great Orme in Llandudno.
There is another thread on here with someone searching for Pensarn Farm and their relative William Bell Rogerson married  Anne Jane Davies and farmed the land there.   Of the farms mentioned Pensarn Farm has been demolished and Marl Bach is just a ruin (see photos)  the other 3 properties are still there but only Marl Farm is still a working farm and the others are private residences.
A public footpath shown in an early O/S map ran from Pensarn Chapel to Egyryn Fawr farm and may have been a route that the Rogerson family took to see their Davies family relations who lived further up the hill.
Thanks again for the info provided by this person and it was nice to meet him again after so long.   It seems Hugh, that you have got direct or indirect links with people who have posted on the forum

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2015, 08:05:53 am »
Hugh, you probably know the info from the Census records but I'll just post them again:-
1851 Census and living at Marl Bach were:-
Edward Davies Head  age 38  born Eglwysbach  Denbighshire
Margaret   "      wife           33             "
Jane           "                      10              "
Anne          "                        8              "
Ellen           "                        6              "
Richard       "                        5              "
Margaret     "                        4              Llandudno    Caernarvonshire
Hugh           "                        1                   "                      "

The 1861  Census still at Marl Bach shows the daughters Jane, Anne and Ellen to have left but adds:-
Dorothy    Davies  daughter age 6     born  Eglwysrhos
Elizabeth      "           "                 3                  "
Mary            "            "                 1                  "

By the time of the 1871 Census the family had moved to Brickfields and only
Edward & his wife and their son Edward aged 7 born in Eglwysrhos were living there with the Grandchild Anne Parry aged 2

The more I read the thread the more I'm convinced that you have been on the right track all along.  Now that I've seen the 1851 Census, I know that William's Grandparents had 7 daughters and 3 sons and now I know their names.
The sons were Richard,  Hugh and Edward so it seems more than a coincidence that William called his first 3 sons after his 3 uncles.
If you are tracing the 1841 Census Hugh, then the family of William Snr, Margaret and daughter Jane should be in the Eglwysbach area of Denbighshire.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #134 on: February 23, 2015, 06:57:26 pm »
I was at the Conwy Archives today and looked at the Burial Indexes for St Hilary's Church at Llanrhos ( Eglwysrhos)  and also the two Cemeteries in Eglwysbach but I couldn't see any grave for William's Grandparents Edward and Margaret Davies.
While I was looking through the graves in the Llanrhos Burial Index I came across this interesting but sad inscription and thought that I would share it with you.    The inscription was in Welsh and I'll translate it for you:-
In memory of Mary
daughter of Edwart and Marged Davies of Marl Bach
Born 1st January 1853
Died September 20th 1857
The names on the inscription are Welsh but that is how they appeared.
 
I then visited the grave at Plot J040 and took these photos of the grave for you.  Interestingly enough someone has been tending the grave as you can see from the flowers put on the grave.
I couldn't understand why Edward and Margaret weren't in the indexes for Eglwysrhos and Eglwysbach so I had a look in the Burial Index for Llangystennin Church and found this at grave  A009.     Again it was in Welsh so this is the English Translation:-

In memory of Edward Davies  Bodysgawen   Pydew,  he died November 13th 1879 aged 63
Also Margaret Davies his wife she died May 19th 1902 aged 81 and buried May 23rd.

Pydew is in the Parish of Llangystennin and although it is only a mile or two from where they lived at the Brickfields they must have moved to Pydew and were buried in the Parish Church.

In the photo of the hillside Maes Glas is the propert on the right that was once owned by the Davies' and Marl Bach is hidden in the trees on the far left of the photo