Author Topic: Daviies Family  (Read 45357 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2014, 08:29:33 AM »
Last night I was reading a book by Chris Draper called "Llandudno before the hotels"   and it covers the period before about 1850.  Part of the book covers streets and houses in the old village of Llandudno and as a result I don't think the photo I posted is of 2 Fron Cottage.
The old names and terraces appear to have vanished but I know roughly where Fron Cottage would be.
In the book it is near a terrace of Properties called "Queen Street" and my G Grandfather lived in one of those cottages. 
A short distance from them is Tai'nyfron (sometimes called "Y Fron")   and a William Owen, Gogarth and his wife were living in one of the cottages when this story was told.
This is where Fron Cottages is and where your father would have been born, I'll find the cottages and post a photo on here.   I want to double check it at the Archives so it'll be after the 8th December.
 

DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2014, 07:44:05 AM »
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The old names and terraces appear to have vanished but I know roughly where Fron Cottage would be.
In the book it is near a terrace of Properties called "Queen Street" and my G Grandfather lived in one of those cottages. 
A short distance from them is Tai'nyfron (sometimes called "Y Fron")   and a William Owen, Gogarth and his wife were living in one of the cottages when this story was told.
This is where Fron Cottages is and where your father would have been born, I'll find the cottages and post a photo on here.   I want to double check it at the Archives so it'll be after the 8th December.
 

Many thanks once again Hugo. 

Using my fathers birth certificate, William's Marriage Certificate, the 1911 Census and the 1901 Census, I narrowed search criteria to William Davies with no middle name, born in Llansaintffraid Glan Conway, Denbighshire in 1876 between 3 April and 19 September. It would appear that William does not know the name of his father and therefore would not be listed in any Census as having 'Son' as a relationship.

An examination of the 1891 Census proved to be inconclusive with a number of possibilities but only one match with a birth place of Llansaintffraid. Tantalisingly, this record shows a William Davies having an occupation of Shoe Maker but lists his father. Looking forward to this family in 1901 shows William Davies as still residing there.

I then focused on the 1881 Census which, of the 10 records showing an 1876 birth year, only one record matches the 'known facts', and yes, it is the record of a William Davies - Grand Son born in Llansaintffraid Glan Conway and a Daughter listed as Dorothy Davies, potentially William's mother.

I then looked at the Birth records in Denbighshire for 1876, only to find that there was no records listing Llansaintffraid Glan Conway but showing 10 entries for Wrexham, 1 entry for Llanwrst and 4 entries for St Asaph.  Does anyone have any suggestions? Even if the William Davies shown in the 1901 Census and the 1881 Census is not my grandfather, shouldn't there be a birth record for this person? Even extending the search to 1878 +/- 1 year does not reveal anything different except for one record for Ruthin and one for Minera.


Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2014, 09:32:21 AM »
You've reached that stage in your research that can be frustrating, but all you need is a bit of luck and that may point you in the right direction.
Just to pick up on the last paragraph of your reply, Denbighshire years ago had two counties that were separate for some reason.  You can discard the entries for Wrexham and it is the St Asaph ones you need to focus on.
If my old memory serves me right then St Asaph was the Registration District for births etc. for Glan Conwy
Llandudno on the other hand was in Caernarfonshire and the Registration District for the town was Conwy

I've had a look at Baptism records for other people on the forum and they go back well before 1876 so I can look at them for your Father's siblings as they are at the Conwy Archives
As for the one's relating to Llansanffraid Glan Conwy  I haven't found out where they are located yet but will do as soon as possible.

Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2014, 11:54:18 AM »
This link below may be of some help with tracing William.  It seems that the Baptism records may be in Ruthin.

I put this into Google " baptism records Glan Conwy"  and had a search under Denbigh Baptisms but I'm afraid that no results came up for Glan Conwy but that doesn't mean for certain that William wasn't baptised there


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DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2014, 04:06:24 AM »
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This link below may be of some help with tracing William.  It seems that the Baptism records may be in Ruthin.

I put this into Google " baptism records Glan Conwy"  and had a search under Denbigh Baptisms but I'm afraid that no results came up for Glan Conwy but that doesn't mean for certain that William wasn't baptised there


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I was wondering what the situation would have been for an unmarried mother in relation to having her illegitimate child baptised back then? Was baptism 'compulsory'?

Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2014, 09:02:31 AM »
It wasn't compulsory to have a child baptised back then but it did seem to be the norm.    There were numerous illegitimate children baptised and I've even seen some where they have named the father too.

DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2014, 05:36:02 AM »
I have ordered the four birth certificates for St Asaph from the GRO so hope one of these is my treasure chest.  One other thought, I had was the norm at the time for recording the Father's name on the Birth Certificate. Did an unmarried mother generally omit the father's name out of fear, embarrassment, etc. or was she likely to include the fathers name as a 'legal requirement'.



Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2014, 06:47:28 PM »
Do you have to pay for the four birth certificates?    My cousin is into family research in a big way and has ordered various certificates only to find out when he has received them that they are not for  his relation so it's cost him a bit.
It wasn't a legal requirement to put the father's name on the Birth/Registration Certificate but from all the Baptism records I have seen the name of the father is missing in the majority of cases.

DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2014, 11:31:59 PM »
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Do you have to pay for the four birth certificates?    My cousin is into family research in a big way and has ordered various certificates only to find out when he has received them that they are not for  his relation so it's cost him a bit.

The four certificates cost me 37 pounds in total.  If one of them turns out to be a positive for my grandfather, it will be worth every penny.  When I originally started tracing my father's tree in 2010, I did not really approach it too logically and ordered four birth certificates, one of which I was certain would be the one I needed. All were for the Conway district (cannot remember why) and none proved to be what I was looking for.  So, yes, it can become a costly hobby.  Having said that, I have taken a lot more methodical approach this time and thanks to you and others on this web site, have got some vital clues and suggestions, so I am hopeful of success this time.

DaveR

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2014, 09:40:52 AM »
I'm in a similar position with a relative, as I have found 4 possibilities in the records with same name, year and place of birth. As far as I can see, the only way to narrow it down to the correct one is to order the birth certificates.

Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2014, 10:11:27 AM »
If the possible relative lived in this area Dave, have you thought of looking at these Baptism Records?     It's free to browse in the Archives and they will do a photo copy of it for 25p.
I'll be in the Conwy Archives next week looking in those records for Hugh's father's siblings and hope I'll get lucky there.

DaveR

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2014, 10:35:10 AM »
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If the possible relative lived in this area Dave, have you thought of looking at these Baptism Records?     It's free to browse in the Archives and they will do a photo copy of it for 25p.
I'll be in the Conwy Archives next week looking in those records for Hugh's father's siblings and hope I'll get lucky there.
Good idea, Hugo, I shall bear that in mind, thank you.

Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2014, 03:19:16 PM »
Hugh,  I had a wander down Cwlach Street today and made a note of that info I read in Chris Draper's book.   Unfortunately it didn't help as all the old names of the cottages have gone and been renamed.  In addition the street has been renumbered since your Dad lived there.
I called at the terrace that I thought was the most obvious one and spoke to a lady who had lived there for 40 years and she had never heard of Fron Cottages.   Mind you she had never heard of Queen Street either and that was immediately next door to her and I know that because my G Grandfather lived there.
Over the years the properties have been altered and today where I called,  there are two cottages together but looking closely at the building, I believe that it was a terrace of four cottages originally.
I can find out the exact one though, through the Archives but it'll be next week before they reopen but in the meantime I took photos of a couple of terraces so that I don't need to go back to the street again.
Once I can confirm the correct address I'll post the photo on here.
 

DownUnder

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2014, 01:56:02 AM »
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Hugh,  I had a wander down Cwlach Street today and made a note of that info I read in Chris Draper's book.   Unfortunately it didn't help as all the old names of the cottages have gone and been renamed.  In addition the street has been renumbered since your Dad lived there.
I called at the terrace that I thought was the most obvious one and spoke to a lady who had lived there for 40 years and she had never heard of Fron Cottages.   Mind you she had never heard of Queen Street either and that was immediately next door to her and I know that because my G Grandfather lived there.
Over the years the properties have been altered and today where I called,  there are two cottages together but looking closely at the building, I believe that it was a terrace of four cottages originally.
I can find out the exact one though, through the Archives but it'll be next week before they reopen but in the meantime I took photos of a couple of terraces so that I don't need to go back to the street again.
Once I can confirm the correct address I'll post the photo on here.
 
Thank you for making such great efforts on my behalf Hugo, I very much appreciate it.  As we are coming into the Christmas season I expect you will have many other things that will claim your time so I am happy to wait until such efforts suit your timetable.

Hugo

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Re: Daviies Family
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2014, 09:15:18 AM »
Thanks Hugh,  I'll see what I can do next week but after that I'll be getting busy and the Archives will be closed over the Christmas and New Year period.
Don't worry though because I've got a list of things I want to check and will do them asap.