Author Topic: World Events  (Read 9014 times)

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DaveR

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Re: World Events
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2015, 09:08:59 AM »
Andrew Neil's rant about IS is well worth watching, he's absolutely right:
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Bosun

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Re: World Events
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2015, 09:21:32 AM »
The situation with Syria and IS is confused and somewhat difficult to understand, but it was explained to me like this:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty chap who got so nasty his people rebelled and the rebels (who are good) started winning. But, then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State (who are definitely bad) and some continued to support democracy. (Who are still good.)

So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad ) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria, President Putin (who is bad, because he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking ISIS (who are also bad) which is possibly a good thing.

But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans who are busy backing and arming the rebels.

Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and not to bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (who is still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good) and the Americans cannot attack Assad for fear of upsetting Putin and Iran and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS.

So Assad is now probably good, being better than IS and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them good. America will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin and that now nice mad Ayatollah in Iran and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS.

To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims ( Assad and Iran ) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadi's fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as 'good'.....

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal and hence we will be seen as 'bad'.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also now bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (now good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started.

Clear?
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Merddin Emrys

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Re: World Events
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2015, 11:02:48 AM »
DaveR, agreed, it has always been obvious to me, still shocked at Germany allowing that lot in!  &shake&
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squiggle

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Re: World Events
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2015, 01:39:47 PM »
Bosun, clear?  Yes and no...

I would consider Isis bad and don't see myself changing that view. But good and bad can be subjective and manipulated.

I guess I have to go into myself here...

I knew Clancy songs from childhood and in earlier adult days was known to sing a rebel song or two before largely playing jigs and reels in Irish session (I'm mostly instrumental with the odd non controversial song for this hobby these days).

I think one does learn of things that one feels unjust but I think I've only ever been careless or my the way I think now, unthinking.  I don't thing I've ever really moved from a position whereby if I was asked on a poll would I like to see a united Ireland, I'd vote yes.  (or maybe I've shitfed a little perhaps these days, I'd abstain).

But I could then look at these lyrics which are an extract from Dominic Behan's The Patriot Game:

They told me how Connolly was shot in his chair,
His wounds from the fighting all bloody and bare.
His fine body twisted, all battered and lame
They soon made me part of the patriot game.

It's nearly two years since I wandered away
With the local battalion of the bold IRA,
For I read of our heroes, and wanted the same
To play out my part in the patriot game.

Now I ask myself an uncomfortable question.  I don't believe I ever lived in a situation that would have made me a terrorist. But say as the rebellious youth with no direction I was and say living in NI with relatives dead could I too have become a terrorist? I'd dearly love to answer there are no circumstances that would have happened but I'm not certain I can give the 100% never, ever, at least in youth.

To move to Wales I clearly remember an older (RIP now) family friend from Brynsiencyn about 10 years ago telling me of his schooling aand of the wearing of a placard for speaking in Welsh.  Now I was a Saes import to Wales who only speaks English but I was fuming at the thought. Could I if Iwas born in Wales and with a different upbringing have joined say  Mebion Glyndwr?  I don't know.

I do appoligise that this is a rather personal and uncomfortable rant but I'm trying to address Ians what makes a terrorist/dissafected and Bosun's (acutually humerous but) where is good and bad as best I can.

I guess to try to move forward, I guess a question is how does one dissuade youth from becoming radicalised?

Ian

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Re: World Events
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2015, 04:11:54 PM »
I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well.  Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.

So do we start by banning religion?
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: World Events
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2015, 04:14:35 PM »
Twenty four years ago, on 8 August 1991, several ships carrying approximately 15,000 Albanian migrants succeeded in entering the port of Bari, Italy.  The Italian government’s response was harsh.  Most of the Albanians were detained in a sports stadium without adequate food, water, or access to bathrooms.  Italian authorities dropped supplies to the detained migrants by helicopter.  Within several weeks most of the migrants were deported to Albania.  Their harsh treatment was criticised by human rights organisations and the Pope, but was justified by the Italian government as necessary to deter further irregular migration from Albania.


Italy did accept some of the migrants,  some escaped but they returned the rest and  said that the Albanians were economic migrants and were from outside the EU

born2run

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Re: World Events
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2015, 04:22:29 PM »
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I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well.  Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.

So do we start by banning religion?

That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?

Are Neil and Bosun one in the same or have I missed something?

Either way I don't think Squiggle's 'rant' was about religion at all. Mebion Glyndwr were not religious activists as far as I know and many leading figures in Irish republicanism such as Theobald Wolfe Tone were Protestant.



Ian

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Re: World Events
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2015, 04:33:06 PM »
Quote
That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?
Well, China allows religious observance but the simple fact is that religion is the main cause of conflict throughout the world.  Nationalism (defined largely by language) comes second.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

squiggle

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Re: World Events
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2015, 09:38:59 PM »
Ian, I am actually Christian  although I was an atheist for many years. It's impossible for me to tackle other faiths such as Islam as I've not developed any understanding of them. I'll try to give my own take from my own perspective of trying to be a Christian.

I suppose a starting point would be to have a rapid look through our history. It seems to me pointless denying there haven't been the Crusades, Inquisitions and other persecutions. That differences in faith, notably between protestant and RC, has been used as dividing tool is, I think, undeniable.

Still, my own belief is that it is the misuse of religion that causes the problems and that it can often only be a secondary factor. In brief, I might be tempted to suggest that England's desire to conquer and rule was the initial problem.

To step briefly into a non religious side, I think communist USSR was pretty anti religious (it being the opium of the masses?) yet before the collapse seem to have created a state that was at least as corrupted as the one under the previous regime that was disposed of in rather bloody fashion.

Anyway, to come back to my own beliefs. I'd say a central tenet is to love thy neighbour as thyself.  I can't help but feel the world would be  better place if we even got close to managing that but we fail.  I'm going to quote the bible at you now.  It was directed at the Scribes and Pharisses but...

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.…"

I think we (Christains) often tend to be better at what is described there...

Anway, just a jumbled ramble of thoughts for you.  I'm actually going through a difficult time of reassessing my own beliefs at the moment and it may be a couple of years before I come up with anything that seems to work in my own mind but one thing I'm trying to resolve is this:

How come there are so many denominations and how does the same book seemingly produce a largely left leaning person like myself and a right wing pro gun American?

I'll keep up my personal belief that there is something above me and I don't see that as feeble mindedness but there is a fair bit I'm questionig right now.


Bosun

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Re: World Events
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2015, 02:23:00 PM »
This programme was truly brilliant _ Hardeep's Sunday Lunch:

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The story of a remarkable religious coming together in Bradford, where a Muslim sits on Bradford's last remaining synagogue's council, it should be a lesson to us all.

This is the BBC's blurb on this truly inspiring programme:

While the news is dominated by stories of conflict between Muslims and Jews, Hardeep travels to Bradford to tell the story of a heart-warming and inspiring friendship across the religious divide. The city's Muslim community has not only raised money to save Bradford's last remaining synagogue from closure, but as the ties have grown and trust and friendship blossomed, a Muslim is now on the synagogue's ruling council and another Muslim has been invited to preach there. Hardeep meets Rudi Leavor who has been the synagogue chairman for the past 40 years and finds out how, in spite of global politics, the relationship between Jews and Muslims in this part of Bradford is getting stronger. Rudi introduces Hardeep to two of his biggest Muslim supporters; Jani Rashid who recently became a member of the synagogue's ruling council and Zulfi Karim, a local businessman who raised money for repairs and is now not only Rudi's personal friend, but who has also preached in the synagogue. Now the urgent repairs have been completed, the work to secure a future for the synagogue in the city is just the beginning. Zulfi Karim found it a tough decision to begin working with his Jewish neighbours and thought deeply before offering his assistance - he wondered if he would be betraying his religion but realised that he had a duty to his community, regardless of race or creed. Jani took his position on the Synagogue Council at the start of this year. He says he looks at people of different faiths around the world, struggling to live side by side and says, "Bradford can buck that trend by its acts of friendship".
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Bosun

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Re: World Events
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2015, 07:03:33 PM »
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I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well.  Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.

So do we start by banning religion?

That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?

Are Neil and Bosun one in the same or have I missed something?

Either way I don't think Squiggle's 'rant' was about religion at all. Mebion Glyndwr were not religious activists as far as I know and many leading figures in Irish republicanism such as Theobald Wolfe Tone were Protestant.

Ian is talking about Andrew Neil, broadcaster and hairstylist guru, late editor of the Sunday Times who has a remarkable self belief and a reliance on fake tan and hair colouring. 

On the other hand, I, Bosun, have continual doubts about life and it's enormity, and I am going grey.

Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Hugo

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Re: World Events
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2015, 02:27:50 PM »
Turkey shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border

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Hugo

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Re: World Events
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2015, 10:44:39 PM »
Worth hearing from a guy who actually speaks the truth.

This is a short 5 minute video of Nigel Farange talking about Merkle’s
recent agreement with Turkey.
Worth a listen, he is right on.

Rewarding Turkish blackmail is a dangerous game - UKIP Leader Nigel Farage

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longer speech on the Paris

born2run

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Re: World Events
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2017, 08:48:01 AM »
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'

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Would anyone want him as their PM?

Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.

Bosun

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Re: World Events
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2017, 08:59:08 AM »
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'

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Would anyone want him as their PM?

Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.



Don't exaggerate. It was 12,824,737.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.