Author Topic: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's  (Read 11549 times)

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Offline gwennanmay

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Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« on: January 30, 2014, 12:15:36 pm »
Hi, I am trying to find out a bit about my 3rd great grandmother Ellen or Elinor Lloyd who married a Daniel Phillips - veterinary surgeon - and lived in (Zion) Chapel House in Mostyn Street.  I have found her on a few census reports but can't find any records of birth (Bangor), marriage or death!  It doesn't help that she is recorded under two different christian names in the census records.  Hopefully someone out there will know something.  Thank you...

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 12:38:49 pm »
I'm afraid that I know nothing whatsoever about the family although I remember the Zion Baptist Church before it was demolished. 
What I can do for you though is to check the Burial Indexes for you in the Conwy Archives in Llandudno.
I go to the Archives sometimes and the Burial Indexes are in alphabetical order so they are usually easy to trace providing the grave had a headstone.
They may be buried in the Llandudno or  Llanrhos Cemeteries or as this was a Baptist Church ( I think) then they could be buried in the Baptist Cemetery in Glanwydden.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 12:46:45 pm »
I don't know if this is the same person but there are many references to a Daniel Phillips in Genes Reunited.   One of the references says that he died in December 1899 and was buried at Eglwysrhos.   (This is St Hilary's Church in Llanrhos)
This Daniel Phillips was involved in a number of things and was representing Penrhynside in some matters.
I'll have a look in the Burial Indexes at the  Archives for St Hilary's first and then work through the others if I can't find it there.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 04:46:30 pm »
I think the Daniel Philips I mentioned previously is not the one you are looking for but think that he may be related. I've no evidence to base my guess on other than that they lived in the same area and are buried nearby to your relatives. In fact there are quite a few people buried with the other Daniel Philips.
Anyway,  I called at the Archives today and looked in the Burial Index for St Hilary's Church Llanrhos and think that I have found the grave of your relatives.    They are buried at Plot No I 092 which has a flat slate headstone and is near the Church on it's eastern side.
I'll copy out the inscription on the grave as it appears in the Burial Index:-

"In affectionate remembrance of
Daniel Philips
Veterinary Surgeon of Tan Y Fron
Llandudno  who died May 9th 1877 aged 73 years
Also Ellen the beloved wife of
the above who died at Bangor
April 16th 1878 aged 70 years
Also in loving remembrance of
JOHN LLOYD and DANIEL PHILIPS
sons of the above who were drowned
at Valencia Spain March 3rd 1867
the memory of the just is blessed"

I later called at St Hilary's Church and took some photos of the grave.   Daniel and Ellen's grave is the flat stone on the right in the
foreground.

I can't be certain where the house called Tan Y Fron is but know that there is a Tan Y Fron in Penrhynside and if that is the one then it could link with the other Daniel Phillips who lived in that area and is also buried in Llanrhos.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 11:41:01 am »
 gwennanmay,  from the info I found yesterday we know that Daniel Phillips was born about 1804 and died in Llandudno in 1877 and that Ellen Phillips ( nee Lloyd) was born about 1808 and died in Bangor in 1878 and also the names of two of the children they had, so you could find them in the 4 Census periods that they were alive in   1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871.
That info should also help you to find out more about their births and marriages as those surnames were not as common as others such as Jones or Roberts etc

There are a number of sites that may help you such as "find my past" but you normally have to subscribe to them and I don't.   Instead I visit the local library where access to this info is free.   By the way a quick look at Daniel Phillips shows that he was actually born in Mochdre which was in Denbighshire at the time. ( the Counties have changed names numerous times since)

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 03:51:18 pm »
gwennanmay,   I went to the Library and had a look at the Census Records for 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871 and can understand your confusion as the mother Ellen and her daughter Ellen have both had different names recorded on the forms.
I didn't find out any info that you don't already know about but in the 1861 Census their address seems to be the Wesleyan Chapel House and by 1871 they had moved to Tan Y Fron Church Walks Llandudno.
Ellen was born in Bangor Caernarfonshire about 1808 so the Gwynedd Archives may be able to help you there and looking at the 1841 Census their daughter Mary was aged 12 so I would think that they got married in the late 1820's and as it was the custom to be married at the Bride's home address then I suppose the Gwynedd Archives may have the info there too.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 04:03:32 pm »
Tan Y Fron in Church Walks Llandudno is set back from the road and the front garden is full of trees so a photo of the property is difficult to do it justice.
It's the smaller of the properties in the centre of the foreground of the photo.

Offline gwennanmay

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 03:09:26 pm »
Hi Hugo, I have just been reading through all your responses again as I am back researching the Dunphys, having been sidetracked for quite a long time by other branches of my family!  I notice that you remember the Zion Chapel on Mostyn Street before it was demolished and was wondering if you could tell me exactly where on the street it used to be?  Looking forward to hearing from you and thank you so much for all the information so far - it's been extremely useful.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 03:57:01 pm »
Hi Gwennanmay,   I've enclosed a couple of photos of the Zion Baptist Church shortly before it was demolished. It was located in Mostyn Street and was located on the site where the present day Victoria Centre is now  (roughly on the left hand side of the Victoria Centre ).
It was demolished when Mostyn Estates refused to renew the lease for the building and was replaced by a concrete carbuncle for Boots.   Thankfully that building was also demolished and replaced by the Victoria Centre not long afterwards.

Offline gwennanmay

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 04:16:26 pm »
Hi Hugo, that's brilliant - thank you!  Was it a converted chapel or did they just have rooms there do you think?  Zion Chapel House is the address on the 1851 Census, but it seems a bit odd!  Also, their address on the 1861 census is Wesleyan Chapel House - is that the same building I wonder?

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2016, 05:26:17 pm »
The (English) Wesleyan Methodist Chapel was opened in 1866.  It is situated opposite the site of the old Zion Chapel as Hugo has described.  The Wesleyan Chapel used to have a chapel house alongside but that was demolished few years ago to make way for the Marks & Spencer satellite store.

Zion was opened in 1862 and demolished in 1967.  I don't recall a chapel house there. The name of chapel is commemorated in the name of a short street linking Madoc Street and Back Madoc Street and which was built shortly after the demolition - Zion Passage.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2016, 10:35:33 pm »
Hi Hugo, that's brilliant - thank you!  Was it a converted chapel or did they just have rooms there do you think?  Zion Chapel House is the address on the 1851 Census, but it seems a bit odd!  Also, their address on the 1861 census is Wesleyan Chapel House - is that the same building I wonder?

Gwennanmay, I don't think that the Chapel in Mostyn Street is the one that your ancestors lived in, simply because it wasn't opened until after both Census dates.
I've just had a read of Chris Draper's book "Llandudno before the hotels" and one paragraph says " on census day etc etc Caersalem (Wesleyan Methodist) -- incorrectly recorded as Zion"
Now Caersalem was in Cwlach Street on the lower slopes of the Great Orme.   We can trace where it was if you could let us know three addresses before your relatives and three after as shown in the 1851 census.  The exact address would be traceable to locals on the forum.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2016, 10:57:03 pm »
Actually I've just found out something, so I don't need any addresses from the Census.

Chris Draper's book at page 166 says " Caersalem Chapel House (1837) the home of Daniel Phillips the chemist and vet from Mochdre"

So that's the address you want  Caersalem  Cwlach Street  Llandudno and it was a Wesleyan Methodist Chapel and not the Baptist Chapel we were thinking of.    I have a photo somewhere but can't find it at present.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2016, 08:15:08 am »
Gwennanmay,   my ancestors were in the 1861 census and they lived in what is now called Cwlach Street but I don't think that it had that name then.
It appears that the Chapel House was wrongly named in the census and was not Zion but should have been Caersalem.
Just so that you can check for yourself have a look at the Census records for your ancestors again and to confirm that the info I have supplied is correct I have listed the names of some other properties in the street:-
Ty Glas,   Troed Y Rhiw,  Pendyffryn,  Ty'nymaes,  Tygwyrdd,  Penyfron, Frondeg.

They are near Caersalem Chapel House and some of those properties are still there today.  I would be interested to know if you agree.

Offline Helig

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Re: Ellen/Elinor Lloyd married to Daniel Phillips c1850's
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2016, 10:58:57 am »
The 1861 census shows the family living in the "Wesleyan Chapel H", the address before this is 27 Queen St. Prior to that, the addresses are 22-26 Queen St. After the Wesleyan Chapel H, is the Wesleyan Chapel, the Graig Cwlach Road one household only), next 1 Tanrallt.

Helig