Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,  I was talking to a friend last night and he has a lot of knowledge about the Llandudno Junction area and although he didn't know exactly where the farm was he was adamant that there was no farm there in 1968.
You must have been very young at the time but can you remember the name of the people that you stayed with and was it an ordinary house that you stayed at  or was it another farm?

[Cambrian]

Having dug about a bit more, it looks to me as if Narrow Lane was at one time called Bryn Derw Lane.  Along the lane before you got to Waenfynydd was a farm called Bryn Derw Farm.  In 1939 it was occupied by a John Richard Davies. This lane starts from Conway Road roughly where Pensarn Farm was.

The site at Pensarn was occupied by Bookers wholesale "cash and carry".  They were there in the late 1960s.

[anneelaine]

Hi I would think it was Davies  could not tell you much as welsh was spoken all the time and I only know bits
Yes Hugo it was only a ordinary house grey and very dark 2 floors  I think i may have a photo not sure if the house was on the photo maybe just me looking after the sheep
  there was  no wife we never saw one anyway
 and my mother never came only my Dad do not know why
 never told us any names just a old man and son we only went in for  tea
spent all the time  with my sister outside all the times
I loved going freedom
we  stopped going in 1967 /68
Anneelaine

[anneelaine]

Hugo
We came on a train to Junction from Chester and then walked up to the farm never stayed over
Anneelaine

[anneelaine]

Hugo
It  look like ordinary detached house very Gray stone 
It was a very old scary  main house  not as big and glamorous  as you see the ones now
this how I saw it as a child.
Thanks
Anneelaine

[anneelaine]

St. Cystennin's church Bryn Pydew I will try and give them a ring? I think.
Do you think they would know what farms most of the family came from? Apart from pensarn  we know about
  Do you think they  would keep old books there ?
 There are about 5 of them in the graveyard .
Been thinking William Rogerson first wife she was called Mary Jones they were at the farm pensarn in 1911
after her death in 1917 he married Jane and took her to the same farm maybe the farm was connected to Mary Jones side of the family
Anneelaine

[anneelaine]

Sorry only one more thing
 I think what made me think it could be a Jones was that when I phoned my cousin in Australia  last night he said  that maybe the  farm was from the Jones side I said do not think so but thinking it over maybe he was right
Anne

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,  I'm hoping to go to the Archives in Llandudno this coming week and will have a look around the records there.  I'll look first at the Burial Indexes for Llangystenin Church, they list the location of the graves and are in alphabetical order so are easy to trace.
What is also shown is the inscription on the gravestone and I'm hoping that this will give me the name of the top farm which I suspect is in the Bryn Pydew area.
I'll then have a look at some other records and see what transpires there.

You posted  "She says it was very large white  house  with a  huge staircase  near a shop near to  to the  pub you go up the hill a  little bit she always on about the hill?  And you  look out to the sea sorry about the vagueness" 
I've one idea about that but need to check dates with someone just in case I'm wrong

[anneelaine]

Thanks Hugo
 Davies was the name for  the white house my Aunt went in about 1947 or around that time
Anneelaine

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,   I went to the Archives today and looked at a few records there.  The Burial records for Llangystenin Church show 4 people in grave No C007 and the Rogersons were:-Catherine Ellen, Mary, William and William Bell.    I have translated the inscription from Welsh into English for you:-
"  In loving memory of Mary Rogerson dear wife of William Rogerson Pensarn Farm Llangystenin who died 27th January 1917 aged 38.
                                                     Also
Catherine Ellen dear child of the above who died 27th October 1918 aged 1 year 9 months.
                                                       Also
William Bell Rogerson who died 19th February 1940 aged 62.
There were no other Rogersons buried in Llangystenin nor in Llanrhos, the other Cemetery for that area but there were three other Rogersons buried in Llandrillo Church (Rhos on Sea) at grave No M091 and their inscriptions read as follows:-
" In loving memory of James Rogerson 1863-1952  Mary Rogerson 1863-1952 and their beloved daughter Mabel 1896-1991 the widow of Tom Smith died 1968"      The inscription didn't mention where they lived though but I might be able to find out and may have more information on that big white house when I have double checked things out.
I have enclosed 3 photos of the Llangystenin graves

[Hugo]

I forgot to mention that Pen Sarn Farm has been demolished but was situated where I said it was on the photo of part of a map.  I have confirmed this with an 1889 O/S map and also details of a parcel of land that was sold by the owner of the farm in the 1800's.  It wasn't owned by the Rogerson's but must have been tenanted.
If you want to see where it was on the Google Street map go down Pabo Lane from the Railway Bridge and it was on the left just before the new A470 road crosses the lane

[anneelaine]

Hugo Thank you so much  so kind of you for the help
You say there are 4 in the grave
 First wife Mary 1917
 Ellen as a baby & William!!!! did it have a date for this william ?maybe 1910 death 1985
 and William Bell  Rogerson 1940
the one I do not know about is William
I Think Jane Ann Rogerson his  2ad wife Grave is in St Agnes's  in Conwy some were  I'v been a long time ago 
but forgot were about it is.
So it looks like we did not go to Pensarn farm
 Were did we go Mmmmmm I think that a hard one.
all we know then it was a cousins farm some were up them hills and for all the years we believed we had been to   Pen sarn farm
 We have found out a lot after all my dad would not speak  about his life its his birthday to day
also it was hard work with my Aunt  she says it best left alone but I am going to show the boys around there in the next few weeks were there granddad lived without your help guy would not know were to start thanks  to you All
Anneelaine

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,    just thinking about it, there is a simple explanation for the grave in Llangystenin.    The Archivists when they make the Burial Index list the names on the headstones and then index them alphabetically.   William  (Hill) Rogerson was listed as he was Mary's husband at the time of her death.   However he was not buried there.  Later in 1917 he married Jane Ann (or Anne Jane Davies) and providing he was still married to her he may have been buried in St Agnes' in Conwy.
The Burial Index in the Archives will tell me that.
With regard to James and Mary Rogerson it would be worth a look in the 1952 copy of the North Wales Weekly News at the Archives to see if it gives their address. ( strange that they died in the same year?)
I don't know when Pen Sarn Farm was demolished but Electoral Records may help to give a rough idea but it will involve a bit of work doing it.    The address of the farm was  Pen Sarn Farm  Pabo Lane   Llandudno Junction.

I was talking to my Llandudno Junction friends on Thursday evening and neither knew where Pen Sarn Farm was but were adamant that it wasn't there in 1968.   Interestingly enough the large white house came into conversation and one of my friends worked on the house when he was young.  He thought that he painted it white but did say that in the house was a beautiful large Oak staircase that he can remember well.   I want to check further but I can tell you that it was there in 1968 and that it also has some connection with where Pen Sarn Farm was situated.     Also it is uphill from the Black Cat Corner and slightly less so from Pen Sarn Farm itself

[anneelaine]

Hello Hugo
 William Hill  Rogerson  is William  Bell Rogerson name wrong in  the census,
Jane Ann Rogerson is by herself just phoned  the graveyard   grave B548
 So maybe Pensarn and the white house belonged to  same  Family the Davies
will cheek on on the names you give me Know
Thanks
Anne

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,  The William Rogerson listed on the headstone is the William Bell Rogerson   b1879 and died 1940 so it's one and the same person.
So in the grave are 3 people and William was therefore buried with his first wife in Llangystenin and not with his second wife as I originally thought.
The big white house that had a large Oak staircase was called Park Hotel but was demolished and I believe was owned at the time by Martin Stewart who owns Richard Williams Builders Merchants and one of his yards is built on part of the site of the old Pen Sarn Farm.

Now I've no evidence to say that this is the property in question but I'm making some enquiries to find out more information and it could be just a coincidence.
Have you got those photos of the house you called at and also the photo of you by the tree when you were 15.  The tree should still be there and might help to identify where you were?