Author Topic: Elias Family  (Read 81301 times)

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Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2015, 07:47:20 pm »
I was in the Archives today so I had a look in the Burial Index for St Mary's Church at Caerhun. so I'll copy it out as it read in the book.
Richard and Esther are buried in grave No C63  next to Elias Jones.
The inscription read as follows:-
" In memory of RICHARD EVANS of Llwydfanissaf was inter'd on the 25th day of March 1789 AGED ....
also Esther wife of RICHARD EVANS was inter'd 28th March 1808 aged ....  "

No ages were shown so perhaps they were unreadable but you have another new address to add to your list.    I would imagine that the house name could be Llwydfan Isaf   but I've never heard of it and I've tried to Gogle it too. 

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #181 on: February 14, 2015, 02:34:39 am »

I suspect Llwydfan is the one which now forms part of the Bodnant estate although in previous references to this property I have not seen the Isaf included.  We know that the Llwydfan where they lived was 2miles from Gorswen, Rowen because the "Bygones" document in the Bangor University archives refers to a grandchild of Richard and Esther making that walk of that distance to Llwydfan regularly.  Based on google maps the Bodnant Eatate Llwydfan property at Henryd is in fact 2 miles from Gorwsen.  Sounds likely.  Thanks again for your help Hugo.

http://www.bodnant-estate.co.uk/businesses/agriculture




Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #182 on: February 26, 2015, 06:06:25 pm »
I was in the Archives today looking at the Llanddoged Burial Register when I noticed this entry at No 85:-

" Elias Jones Elias    The Abbey died Feb 10th  at 7 months old"

I've just noticed that I've forgotten to make a note of the year when  I was looking at the period 1836 - 1860   so I'll look again unless the know the year already.    A rather sad short life.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #183 on: February 27, 2015, 03:12:46 pm »
Stuart,    I've opened up the link and seen Llwydfaen Farm which forms part of the Bodnant Estate and the farm is near Tre Morfa and very near the River Conwy.
However the abode of Richard Evans according to my notes is LLWYDFANISSAF  ( it should be two words Llwydfan Isaf)   and is not the same name as the place you have looked at.
I don't know exactly where it is but when you have a name with Isaf (lower)  there is usually another farm nearby called Llwydfan Uchaf  (upper) but it is Llwydfan Isaf you are looking for.
If I can find the address then I'll post it for you.  Have a look at this by putting the highlighted bit into Google

12-03-1828 The Salopian Journal- Last chance to read
At the Castle Inn, in the Town of Conway, in the County of Carnarvon, ... growing on Tremorfa, Llwydfan- issa, and Llwydfan- ucha, in the said Parish ...... to Miss Richards, only daughter of Mr. John Richards, of Llaufafr- isaf, iu the same county

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #184 on: March 02, 2015, 10:09:53 am »
Thanks again Hugo.  Attached is another article that shows how close Tremorfa must have been to Llwydfan Isaf and Llwydfan uscha.  Some references to the family link it to these names and some just to Llwydfan, is it possible that the names varied over time or that perhaps one of the farms has ceased to exist once it became to Bodnant Estates?  I know the Llwydfan is the correct distance from Gorswen as the Bygones documents talks of William Jones walking the 2 miles between the properties (to his grandparents) as a child.  More interesting intrigue …

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #185 on: March 02, 2015, 11:30:18 am »
I came across a site by accident and it's quite good for finding things like old places.  Just put British History Online into Google and go to the home page.
In the search box just put the area you are looking for  eg  Eglwysbach and you will go to an old 19th century map of that area.
I found Llwydfaen Isaf near Tremorfa and although Llwydfan and Llwydfaen are similar they do have different meanings.   However I'm wondering if there may have been a spelling mistake at some time but I'll Look for Llwydfan Isaf when I have more time to do so

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #186 on: March 02, 2015, 12:24:53 pm »
Thanks Hugo.  Amazing once again.  I am sure the grave inscription would be correct so it must be Llwydfan issa we are looking for.  Can you tell from the map whether the Bodnant estate Llwydfaen is in more or less the same spot?  You seem to be a bit of a map master!

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #187 on: March 02, 2015, 12:53:07 pm »
It's more by luck than judgement on my part finding things but I still haven't found Llwydfan Isaf although I'm searching in the right area there is a bit of that area I can't seem to find but I'll keep trying.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #188 on: March 03, 2015, 05:41:48 pm »
I still haven't found Llwydfan Isaf but I was in the Archives again and looking at the Llanddoged Burial Register.   Llanddoged is a village between Maenan and Llanrwst and I've listed what I found in the years from 1824 to 1870 to add to your family list:-

Llanddoged Burial Register

No              Name                       Address                   date buried         age 
85           Elias Jones Elias          The Abbey                10/2/1824         7 months
157         Catherine  Elias            Ty Ucha Maenan      18/6/1833         30 years
159         John      Elias               Ty Ucha  Maenan       6/7/ 1833          2 years
160         Elizabeth  Elias             Ty Ucha  Maenan     25/7/1833         3  months
229         Thomas Elias               Tynddol                   23/3/1839         23 years
232         Anne    Elias                 The Abbey               11/8/1840        14 years
234         Thomas  Elias               Tynddol                   17/3/1841        76 years
366         Anne  Elias                    Tynddol                   15/2/1855        88 years
370         Anne   Elias                   The Abbey                24/12/1855     64 years
519         William  Elias                 The Abbey                 11/8/1870       81 years

I looked at the Register up to 1885 but didn't look any further.    I'll still look for Llwydfan Isaf but a thought has struck me about the similarity of the names:-

Llwyd =   grey
Fan    =    place
Isaf    =    lower   so translated it means Lower Grey Place

Llwyd  =   grey
Faen    =   stone
Isaf      =   lower  so translated it means Lower Stone Place

In both cases it describes the location and colour of the building and the name could have altered over the years, it does happen so it's something to think about and Llwydfaen Isaf is about the 2 miles from Gorswen
You should be able to find the addresses from that link I mentioned before British History Online

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #189 on: March 03, 2015, 06:24:19 pm »
Thanks again Hugo.  I was aware of the Llandogged burials and visited there that first year.  I can place all those from the Abbey, I will go back to my notes to see if the others are related.  Yes the names do sound similar, interesting and as you say, the right distance from Gorswen. FYI it was William Elias who was the Lord Newborough estate manager taking the role over from his father in law Elias Jones also buried at St Mary's.  regards for now. Stuart

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #190 on: March 06, 2015, 10:11:01 pm »
Llwydfaen Isaf and the Tremorfa Stud Farm near Tal Y Cafn and very close to the River Conwy

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #191 on: March 08, 2015, 08:51:25 am »
Thanks so much Hugo.  Out of interest is it still known as Llwydfaen Isaf?  And are the two farms very close to one another?  regards  Stuart

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #192 on: March 08, 2015, 09:50:27 am »
Yes. it's still called Llwydfaen Isaf and both farms are near each other, probably about less than a mile away from each other.    They both have long drives from the road to the farm and both are on sloping ground very near to the River Conwy.
If you want to see them on Google put Tal y Cafn in and then click on maps.  Go on the left bank of the river up Tremorfa Road and Llwydfaen Isaf is the firsr farm on the right of the road,  Tremorfa is next on the right just after Llwydfaen Woods.
If you switch to the satellite image you can see for yourself how the farms and the area are now.

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #193 on: March 08, 2015, 10:54:33 am »
Thanks again Hugo.  I can tell exactly where it is - I have used the Rowen Road a number of times.   I can roughly visualise the track the William Jones in the Bygones document would have taken walking from Gorswen to Llwydfaen.  cheers for now

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #194 on: March 08, 2015, 04:41:08 pm »
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the farm is called LLwydfaen Isaf and am starting to wonder if there was a spelling mistake on the inscription or that I had copied it down wrongly.
I have put just Llwydfaen Isaf into Google and some historical documents have come up which I haven't read in detail but part of Llwydfaen Uchaf appears to have been taken over by Llwydfaen Isaf.
An interesting thing I read in the paper years ago and read on here also  is that an aerial photograph revealed a previously unknown church on the lands of Llwydfaen.
I'll check the inscription again and keep my fingers crossed!