Elias Family

[sgbright]

Hi Hugo

Very interesting.  I saw something on the net that suggested the Gorswen reserve is make up of land that was compulsorily acquired from Gordwen and a couple of neighbouring farms some years ago so you may well have walked on some of the original Gorswen.  I'll bring my hiking boots!

cheers

Stuart

[Hugo]

There is a footpath that goes past the Farmhouse but due to lack of time and a good thirst we made straight for the Ty Gwyn pub and enjoyed a drink outside in the warm sunshine       Z**     Z**

[sgbright]

Fantastic, i did have the nature reserve on my list also thinking it might have interesting views of the locale.  Is the chapel referred to in Rowen itself or one of the other villages I see referred to and which supplied the 270 children for the 1884 wedding?

[Hugo]

It's in Rowen just past the pub I believe.

[sgbright]

great, will add this to my list ... fantastic

[sgbright]

Can anyone tell me what the last column in the attached means - it is for nationality but in some cases says Welsh and in others it says something like "Boch".. Apologies in advance i suspect this is a silly question!

[Hugo]

Hi Stuart,  that end column was only in some Census forms and it aked for the language that that person spoke.   In those old days it was predominantly Welsh but if the person spoke both Welsh and English they said "both"    that's all it was.
In that Census the Elias family spoke both Welsh and English but the servants spoke only Welsh

[sgbright]

arghh - I thought that may have been a silly one - thanks

[sgbright]

Am going over a little bit of old ground but wanted to sense check. 

http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I183900&tree=Welsh   - this site suggests Plas Y Glyn was in Clynnog.

However when I look at the census records for various folk which histfam says were born at plas y glyn they all say llanfwrog.  does this mean the clynnog on histfam is not correct or is there another clynnog that does not show on most maps?

[Hugo]

Stuart,  I can't give you an answer to your question.   Clynnog Fawr is the correct name of the village but it is commonly just called Clynnog.   I can't find any other Clynnog in North Wales but Clynnog Fawr is the area where your distant ancestors are from.
I have looked in " listed buildings Clynnog Fawr"  but there is no Plas Y Glyn listed there and although the Census records show that they were actually born in Clynnog they must have moved from there to Plas Y Glyn in Llanfwrog later on.
I'm not saying that the site you have posted the link for is wrong, but I can find no trace of Plas Y Glyn in Clynnog and although Plas Y Glyn isn't such a common name it seems too much of a coincidence for the family to have lived in two different properties that shared the same name.
Sorry that I can't be more helpful.

[sgbright]

Hi Hugo.  Thanks for that. The older census records seem to say llanfwrog. The only place I can see clynnog is histfam.  The old will also points to Anglesey in the same area. I am wondering if there is a chance histfam may be wrong. Is there anything you have seen in our writings that point to clynnog other than histfam and its source publication?  It was only yesterday that I went back to the first census that went back this far and saw the birthplace as llanfwrog

[Hugo]

Stuart,  I had a look on Google last night and just put in "Elias Clynnog"  and a number of interesting things came up.  Some you already know but others you may not.   As I said before Welsh people many years ago did not have surnames, they were simply known as the son of. For instance William ab Elias was the first person to have a surname and he adopted his father's Christian name of Elias so he became William Elias and that is how the surname originated.
histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I183969&tree..

This shows some of the early Elias family:-
Richard ap    ?        birth not known but may have been living at  Derwen Isa   Clynnog

His son  Elias ab Richard    birth not known  but born at Gefail  Talhenbont,  Llanystumdwy.    Gefail in English means Smith so that must have been their occupation.

His son  William ab Elias born 1787    AKA    William Elias  and residence just given as Plas Y Glyn   ? 

William had 10 children listed and the only address was Plas Y Glyn Clynnog and this is what is causing the confusion.    Was there ever a building in Clynnog called Plas Y Glyn?     Possibly because Glyn means a valley and  there is a street called Nant Y Glyn in Clynnog.

Anyway, I had a look in the Baptisms for Clynnog 1813 etc but could find no entry for any Elias family there, but there was a Baptism record for 1624 onwards that I couldn't access but you may be able to get into it and find the answer.

One thing I did see was a site for John Evans and Mary Jones etc etc  (Rootschat.com)  which you might find interesting.   It's a contact site and it seems like these people may be distant relatives of yours.    If I find out any more then I'll post it here

[sgbright]

Thanks Hugo.  The 1851 census for William Elias b 1787 d 1870 shows his birthplace as Llanfwrog compared to Clynnog per histfam.  As a primary record I err towards it.  The handwritten tree also says Plas Y Glyn Anglesey which is also consistent.  I had thought that the histfam material had been drawn from the Pedigree of families of Caernarvonshire and Anglesey bit have not yet been able to compare.  I do however have a page which I think comes from that publication which also points to Llanfwrog.  Very interesting!

[Hugo]

Stuart,  I went to the Library this afternoon and went on the Ancestry website and found out this info, which with all your research you are probably aware of anyway:-
William Elias  AKA  William ap Elias   born 4th March 1707 or 1708  at Gefail Talhenbont
He was Baptised 3rd July 1707 or 1708 at Llanystymdwy and married Ann Williams at Llanfrothen on 19th January 1730.
He lived at Clynnog but the address only said Plas y Clynnog and later moved to Plas Y Glyn Llanfwrog where he died on 29th June 1787 and was buried there.

I found the info below on Google but again it doesn't give his exact address in Clynnog.   I would think that the County Archives for Gwynedd at Caernarfon would have some info on him as he was so well known then.

ELIAS , WILLIAM  ( 1708 - 1787 ), poet .   According to David Thomas  ( Dafydd Ddu Eryri , q.v.)  , he hailed from Clynnog — Elias ap Richard  of Talhenbont smithy was his father, says J. E. Griffith   ( Pedigrees ). He is said to have started life as a shoemaker , and the list of subscribers to the Diddanwch Teuluaidd , 1763 , and an occasional note in the manuscripts (e.g. Wynnstay MSS. 7, 105, 131, etc.), confirm this. Later, he became a farmer and land agent to the Wynns of Glynllifon  . He m. Ann Williams  , 19 Jan. 1730 , as is shown by a letter in Wynnstay MS 7 , and ten of his children are mentioned in the pedigrees, among them the ‘ William Elias junior  ’ whose name is found in Wynnstay MS. 7 and also in the Diddanwch Teuluaidd . He moved to Plas-y-glyn ,  Llanfwrog  , Anglesey , in 1774 , d. there in 1787 , and was buried at  Llanfwrog  2 July , at the age of 79. Elegies upon him were written by Dafydd Ellis  of Holyhead and by Twm o'r Nant  . He had been taught prosody by Owen Gruffydd  (q.v.)  — some of the latter's manuscripts, e.g. Llyfr Madryn ( N.L.W. MS. 799 ), had passed into his possession — and the elegy (a cywydd ) upon his old master, 6 Dec. 1730 , is his principal poem. Several of his lyrics and englynion are to be found in manuscripts which formerly belonged to him — e.g. N.L.W. MSS. 799, 7892 ; Wynnstay MSS. 6, 7 . He was on friendly terms with Michael Prichard  (q.v.)  , and there was correspondence between him and Goronwy Owen  (q.v.)  . [See further the article Williams , Hugh  ( 1722? - 1779 )  .]

[sgbright]

anks Hugo.  I have seen most of this but there are a few things i will track down.  the tree i sent you shows there were marriage connections with the Wynns of Wynnstay which might explain the appointment to the role    thanks again stuart