Author Topic: Elias Family  (Read 81261 times)

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Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2013, 12:06:58 pm »
Thanks Jane.  And I have learned so much more than is on this thread.  I have found two ancestors who were into genealogy in the 19th century and their papers are in the Archives.  Hows that for a goldmine!

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2013, 12:24:19 pm »
Hi Jane, hope that are keeping well.  At least you can travel to the Archives in Llandudno to have a look at your Roberts connections but it's a bit harder for Stuart to do that!     ;D
The Gwynedd Archives are in Caernarfon so anything to do with Glanllifon or the Llanfwrog line will be dealt with there.


Offline sgbright

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please ignore
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2013, 12:30:09 pm »
please ignore

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2013, 12:34:32 pm »
Thought I would post a another pic of Isobel, this time much later in life with her daughter, granddaughter and great grand daughter (my Mum).  A few years ago I tried to locate their graves but could not.  After speaking to some of the relatives, I was told that they were cremated and had their ashes thrown into the wind in the hope that they would reach the mother country.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2013, 12:35:08 pm »
A lovely photo Stuart and you ancestor obviously had "Hiraeth" for the old Country.
Plas Y Glyn is the name of a house and translated it means the Mansion of the Glen. Here is another link to keep you busy:-

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.genuki.org.uk%2Fbig%2Fwal%2FAGY%2FLlanfwrog%2Findex.html&ei=ZTY3UdTeDsXuOo_qgcgG&usg=AFQjCNHTZ1tJiaHILZ1voRjJ-tS3E9fGKA&sig2=8zinUkp0baktiFP-8Z7Ngg


Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2013, 12:45:31 pm »
Stuart,  I'm not sure if you know about this or not but I'll repeat it as it may help with your Welsh roots.  $walesflag$
If you want to find the meaning of a Welsh word go into Google and just type this for example:-
Plas Welsh  and from the list that comes up click on Plas Welsh English translations it will then tell you the English meaning of the Welsh word.         $welsh$

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2013, 12:49:24 pm »
Hi Hugo

This Plas y Glyn seems to appear in the family back to the early 1700s see     

http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I183900&tree=Welsh     

It refers to Plas Y Glynn Clynnog.  When I search on Ancestry I can see a Plas Y Glynn appearing in Llanfwog in the 1911 census.  Do you think this may be the same home?

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2013, 12:51:46 pm »
Ah - thanks Hugo - I was not aware.  In this part of the world we are amazed at the age of some of the homes that remain in the UK and certainly Wales I can see.  I live in an 1880s home and there are not very many older really - coincidently that was around the time the couple in question immigrated to put in perspective

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2013, 01:01:23 pm »
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/search_index.php?acc_type=1&id=3671

It will be a fascinating visit!

Would there be an easy way to find out if Plas Y Glynn still exists or what its location might be - some of these things may be easier to work out when I am there but are trying to put together a list of things to see to maximise the time there.  any comment welcome but please dont go to any trouble.

cheers


Offline Hugo

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Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2013, 04:36:00 pm »

HI, some good guesses there I suspect.  I attach Edward Ellias' death notice which discussed the Lord Newborough link. 

This is the link to William Elias the poet and yes sorry for the typo it was Llanfwrog.  Out of interest in that context to you think Plas-y-glyn is referring to an area/town or a house/property?  It features prominently in the histfam records over many generations.

http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-ELIA-WIL-1708.html

so much to learn about this family!

Unfortunately I can't see the link but it could be the same property.   The village of Clynnog or Clynnog Fawr as it is sometimes called is near Glynllifon and Llandwrog and years ago on Census records they put the name of the Parish down instead of the actual village.  I'm not saying that this is the case but it is a possibility as Jane found out in the search for her ancestors.

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2013, 10:36:49 pm »

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 12:51:09 pm »
I've only just had a very quick look and what I noticed immediately was this note  " 800 metres NW of the Church of St Mwrog"     Now in Welsh this is Llanfwrog and I know that there is a Plas Y Glyn in Llanfwrog  near Holyhead.   

It's just an observation but with the unusual name of Elias in this area I would think that they all are distantly related to you.  In fact out of all the Elias listed in our telephone directory, I'd be extremely surprised if H Elias in Llanrwst and  R M Elias in Clynnogfawr were not related to you.

According to this link the Plas Y Glyn is definitely in Clynnogfawr and it fits in with Glynllifon etc.     Just as a matter of interest Clynnogfawr was an inportant stop on the Pilgramage to Bardsey Island and it has a massive Church there.  I'm due for a walk tomorrow and my friend lives just a mile away from there so I'll ask him if he knows anything about Plas Y Glyn

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2013, 05:23:55 pm »
Sorry but I forgot to post this link and wanted to explain a bit about the history of your surname.  Centuries ago the Welsh people didn't have Surnames and in order to identify the person they also had their father's name and described as son of. In Welsh this is shown as ab or ap.
In your family tree below the earliest person known below  was Elias ap Richard ( Elias son of Richard)
Now Elias had a son called William ab Elias ( William son of Elias) born 1708.
Now about this time the Welsh people had to conform with the English rule because it became confusing for them for example because William's name should really have been William  ab Elias ap Richard  etc etc
The English wanted the Welsh to stop their tradition and so William ab Elias simply became William Elias and thereafter Elias became the Family Surname



http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistfam.familysearch.org%2Fgetperson.php%3FpersonID%3DI183969%26tree%3DWelsh&ei=O8c4UeyCOoHbPaLMgKAD&usg=AFQjCNEBYUBuKp7rBHqaRs66nnyGTOTTLQ&sig2=8D-zlKP8XZEPHp2YxcJZNA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.d2k

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 08:26:45 pm »
Thanks Hugo.  Interesting and useful.  This one is pure conjecture I am going to ask but based on any thoughts you might have about practices of the day would welcome any input.  Ernest William Bartleet was a younger son of Robert Smith Bartleet of the company William Bartleet & Sons a very substantial needle making company based in Redditch, Birmingham.  I am wondering how he and Isobel (whose actual name was Sarah Isabella) may have met esp since she was only 21 when married.  Given the size of Gorswen and the census record, and what I know of the Bartleet's both families would have been regarded as quite privileged in the day.

Would young women of families such as these gone away to school or have been debutanted (not sure the right word)  to society in a larger city where they might have crossed paths or any other thoughts?

Hope you enjoy your walk - will be fascinated to hear.  Re the likely relationship to the Elias's in the phone directory - I might fire about some old fashioned snail mail and see what comes up.  I can use an online directory for that - are you using one online or the old fashioned kind lol!  If online is it whitepages or another - which is best for the area.  Thanks again stuart