Elias Family

[Hugo]

Hi Stuart, hope that you are keeping safe and well down there in Oz.      Someone on here may have access to Billion Graves but as I don't subscribe to any of these sites I can't help you there.
The only records I would be able to look at are the Burial Indexes that are in the Conwy Archives but at the moment that place is closed because of the Coronavirus and I'm not sure when that opens but I'll gladly have a look for you when it does.
These Burial Indexes are alphabetically so they are easy to find providing of course you know the Cemetery where they were buried but they only list the graves with a headstone

I presume that when Mary was buried she would still have the name Mary Elias but I will look for Mary Jones if I can't find it.     Would she have lived at Gorswen in Rowen?

As an aside there aren't many people with the Surname Elias in the Conwy Valley area but my wife's pilates  instructer was called Elias and I was going to ask her if she was related to you in any way but my wife had to pack the pilates in so I never had the chance to ask her.

[sgbright]

Hi.  thanks ever for your amazing help.  we certainly hope life can return to normal at some point not too. far away.   The Elias thing is a little confusing when it comes to Gorswen as the first family inhabitant (relying on my memory) was Elias Jones not to be confused with his grandson Edward Elias who was the later occupant.  Mary was Elias Jones' second wife so her surname would be Jones.  I can see her burial in the Caerhun burial register but am curious as to whether she is in a separate grave on her own.  She died a year before him - it is quite possible based on what seemed to be going on that she may be separate.   I. am trying to understand and piece together what was happening.  It was Elias Jones that also owned property at Penmaenmawr and appeared very wealthy based on those and some slate interests - a helpful fellow at the local history centre told me he made is money as some of the mines had to cross his land to get their product to shippng and he collected tolls.  However he also seemed to have slate interests in his own right as there is also a legal case of him litigating with the Crown over their right to extract royalties in relation to those activities.  thanks again for any help and keep safe

[Meleri]

It is highly unlikely Elias second wife Mary would have been buried with the first wife.

His Headstone reads :-

Sacred.
To the memory of Elias Jones of Gorswen in this Parish.
Who left this life on the 15th day of December 1844 age 85.
Here also was interred on 25th day of March 1796 Jane wife of the said Elias Jones, age 34.
And on the 7th day of April 1797 Richard son of the above Elias & Jane Jones age 3.

[DVT]

It is highly unlikely Elias second wife Mary would have been buried with the first wife.

Interesting comment ... my paternal grandmother (died 1933 when my father was only 12) is buried in Ty'n-y-Groes Chapel cemetery.
My grandfather (died 1959) is in the same grave.
Then my step-grandmother (died in the 1980's) is also buried in the grave with the other two!
Perhaps it's an "unwritten rule" for some cementeries.

[sgbright]

I agree that she doesn’t appear to be in the same grave even though she died a year before her husband.  I am guessing that was family choice at the time.  Can anyone see where she is buried and if she has a headstone. 

[Meleri]

Mary was buried in the same Cemetery on 29th March 1843 age 65 by Curate J M Ellis & the address was Gorswen on the burial records. I can't find a headstone as yet, but will carry on looking.

[Hugo]

That was a great find Meleri, what site did you find that on?         If you can't find a headstone for it then I'll have a look at the Caerhun Burial Index when I am able to go to the Archives.     With you finding that info I just need to look at that one book to see if there was a headstone

[Meleri]

Hi Hugo,
It was on the Ancestry site under Caernarvonshire Parish Burials for Caerhun Page 46. It should be in the Archive, but I can't see it giving any more info. I looked on the Billion Graves site but there was only one Mary Jones, but the wrong dates so not her. It looks as if there wasn't a headstone or it has perished.

[Hugo]

Thanks Meleri,    I did see another Mary Jones but she died in 1842.         I'll try the Archives asap and at least there is only one Burial Index I need to look at thanks to your find     

[sgbright]

Thank you so much.  If when times permit anyone can confirm a headstone or it is in proximity to the other family graves that would be much appreciated.  They are kind of to the right and close rear of the church as you come through the gates.  I guess it’s not surprising that the family and he might have preferred to have been buried with his first wife since she is the children’s mother but is a little interesting.  My own grandfather was married twice and with the consent of both his children and those of his second wife he is buried with them both with a very fitting update to the headstones.  He was married to both for exactly 25 years and outlived both.

[Hugo]

The firebreak lockdown in Wales has finished today so the Archives may be opening again shortly.        I've lost all the photos of the families graves in Caerhun when my computer went down without a backup but from memory the Elias graves were near the Church in the top left of the photo.
The burial indexes will reveal if there is a headstone for Mary Jones and will pinpoint its exact location so that will be easier than looking around the Cemetery     
In January there are masses of Snowdrops around the graves and as you know the Church is in a lovely location and is sited in the corner of a Roman fort called Canovium

[Hugo]

I found out that the Archives opened yesterday so I'm going there next Monday and will look at the Caerhun Burial index and see if anything is there for Mary Jones

[Hugo]

I went to the Archives today and had a look at the Caerhun Burial Indexes.    These indexes list the names of the people alphabetically and also list the addresses of the deceased Alphabetically.
However I double checked all the addresses and Mary Jones'  ( including Mary Ann's and a Mary Anne ) but there was no entry for Elias Jones second wife.
Melari was able to find that Mary Jones was buried at St Mary's Church Caerhum on the 29th March 1843 and I also checked the date against all the other entries but could not find a grave for Mary Jones.    The only conclusion I can make is that there was no headstone for her. and she is buried in an unmarked grave there

[sgbright]

Thank you so much and very sorry for the delay.  Based on what I have learned to date that doesn't surprise me.  In Elias Jones' will there are many codicils in effect reducing the position of his second wife. In a document called "Bygones" in the Bangor Archives it is clear the family didn't get on with her and her brother litigated the will after she died.   Obviously a lot going on that we will never know but thanks very much for helping me resolve this particular aspect of the puzzle.  Yes Caerhun is a beautiful place.  So pleased I visited when I did.