Author Topic: Elias Family  (Read 81252 times)

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Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #195 on: March 08, 2015, 06:26:24 pm »
The search for that lost Norman Church at Llwydfaen revealed an unexpected find.   The Roman fort of Kanovium in Caerhun isn't that far away from this latest find

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-wales-23708475&ei=fpP8VPeZH4KwPZDKgKAG&usg=AFQjCNFtNYRg4G268kFsVl8w2ypnZG8BXg

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #196 on: March 08, 2015, 07:39:56 pm »
Thanks Hugo.  I have also seen both spellings.  Here is an extract from Griffiths pedigrees…


Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #197 on: March 09, 2015, 07:55:42 pm »
Just to let you know that the inscription on the grave of Richard Evans at Caerhun was spelt LLWYDFANISSAF.  according to the Burial Index I looked at today.
The burial indexes are very good and not only are the people listed alphabetically in it but also the addresses are also listed alphabetically.
I was therefore able to see that there were 6 graves in Caerhun for the family living at Llwydfaen Isaf.   I'm not listing them all just in case you already know about them but I'll list one that has the address spelt in different ways so that should be the proof that we are talking about the same place:-

Grave No  C051
"  In memory of Catherine, wife of Rowd Evans of Llwydfanisaf was interd on the 1st April 1803 aged ...   Also the above Rowland Evans was interd on the 31st day of December 1805 aged ...   also the remains of Edward Rowlands the son of Rowland Evans of Llwyd Faen Isaf who departed this life March 14th 1838 aged 70

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #198 on: August 20, 2015, 10:30:12 pm »
I've got a feeling that you have already mentioned that you've been to Llanddoged Church and seen the grave of your ancestors but I was there today looking for something else and came across it.
I think that you've taken photos of it but I'll post mine here.

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2015, 12:18:37 pm »
Thanks Hugo.  Yes I did find it when I was there.  It is in great condition.  Of course those buried there lived at the Abbey just down the hill.  William's wife Anne was the daughter of Elias Jones and Jane Evans whose graves you saw at Caerhun. Thanks for your continued assistance.  much appreciated

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2015, 12:28:12 pm »
This is a painting of the building prior to the current Maenan Abbey.  I think it was painted by Arthur E Elias from a painting on wood that was located in the current building probably around the 1900s.  It looks like to may have been painted from up on the hill somewhere around Llandogged.  Would that seem roughly right?

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2015, 03:32:51 pm »
Judging from the angle of the house in the picture I would say that it was painted somewhere on the hill directly opposite the Abbey.   Maenan village is directly above Maenan Abbey whereas Llanddoged  is more than a mile  away to the south ( to the left in the painting)
The area around the building has changed over the years and I'm not sure if the small building on the left is still there.  My wife and I had booked Sunday lunch there yesterday and were looking forward to it very much but she pulled a muscle in her back just before we were setting off and we had to cancel the meal.
We'll go back there as soon as her back gets better as we've always enjoyed a nice meal there.    $good$
 

Offline sgbright

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #202 on: June 05, 2016, 08:11:58 am »
Back again with more leads … and welcoming of any assistance.  Have still not worked out how Ernest William Bartleet (from outside Birminghsm) came to meet Sarah Isobel Elias or why he was living in Trefiw in the few years before.  I had previously seen census information of him boarding in Trefiw but have just come across this:

C H E VALE OF CONWAY1!;
….—Sheep dog or bitch. First, St 10,9; second, 15s; third, 10s. "Twenty-one entries. 1, Air John Owen, Hand Inn, Llanrwst; 2, Mrs Owen, Melai, Llanfair 3, Mr E. W. Bartleet, Cwmeigiau, Trefriw; h c. Mr Donald Ross, Moelcadeiriau, Llangerniew. 43.—Retriever dog or bitch. First, 10s; second, 5s. Ten entries. 1, David Davies, Glanafon, Llan- rwst 2, David E. Jones, ironmonger, Watling-street, Llanrwst. 49…

The census record I saw described him as a sheep farmer .  Could Cwmeigiau have been the farm?

Offline rhuddlan

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #203 on: June 05, 2016, 02:35:19 pm »
per" family search" 1881 census...        (Cwm Eigiau is a large valley.....enter the name in " google earth" to see.)
Name   Ernest Bartlet
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1881
Event Place   Trefriw (Carnarvon), Denbighshire, Wales
Registration District   Llanrwst
Residence Note   Rhiwlas Villa
Gender   Male
Age   24
Marital Status (Original)   Single
Occupation   Farmer 3000 Acres 3 Shepherds
Relationship to Head of Household   Boarder
Birth Year (Estimated)   1857
Birthplace   Redditch, Worcestershire, England
Page Number   10
Registration Number   RG11
Piece/Folio   5536/104

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #204 on: June 05, 2016, 02:46:23 pm »
Hi Stuart, hope that you are keeping ok down there in Australia.

Now Cwm Eigiau is a long and remote valley high up above Dolgarrog and  is surrounded on three sides by the mountains of the Carneddau range.     It was part of the area called Ardda and consisted of many small farms most of which are now deserted and in ruins when the people of the uplands gave up their harsh existence and moved down into the Conwy Valley.

There is an old cottage at the end of the valley that I pass on my walks and it's called Cwm Eigiau Cottage but I would think that this name was added many years after William Bartleet lived in Cwm Eigiau.

Also because of the class consciousness of those times you would have expected him to live in a far grander place if he was going to marry into the Elias family and would imagine it was nearer Trefriw that the cottage in the photo.    I believe that the land and area called Ardda was owned by Lord Newborough and as you know Lord Newborough  owned and had close ties with the Elias family, Perhaps that is how Sarah and William met?

I don't know of any property in that area called Cwm Eigiau so I think the reference there was to the area rather than a specific house, but of course I'm only guessing.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2016, 02:56:43 pm »
You just beat me to posting something Rhuddlan but thanks to your find I had a look on Google and there are a number of houses with an address of Rhiwlas Villas.   It made me wonder if at one time there was a large property there that has since been demolished to make way for the new build.
But where was this large farm?      We'll have to have a walk up there and have a look (minus the car that is)      ;D

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2016, 05:17:09 pm »
I put into Google "Bartleet Trefriw"  but couldn't find anything to help trace the location of the farm in Cwm Eigiau but something else cropped up.     It  showed  a Car boot sale at  Bartleet Rd, Redditch, B98 0DQ, Worcestershire
Rhuddlan's find that  E W Bartleet was born in Redditch made me wonder if the road was named after someone in the Bartleet family as they must have been an influential family in that area to have a road named after them.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #207 on: June 06, 2016, 02:13:25 pm »
When the Census records were carried out they were done in some particular order, and in that way it gives you an idea where the property was.  When I'm trying to locate a place I look at at least three addresses either side of the place I'm  looking for and it has helped me in the past.
I don't subscribe to Ancestry or any other site but use the Library or the Archives where it's free. 
However with this weather being so hot and sunny I'm  only going in the garden while it lasts but will have a look in the Archives when I next go there.       
It seems that William Bartleet was a boarder at Rhiwlas Villas


$sunny$          Z**       

Offline Hugo

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #208 on: June 07, 2016, 03:52:02 pm »
I had forgotten that I had a coffee morning in Llandudno today so after that I was able to go to the nearby Archives.    I had a look at the 1881 Census that Rhuddlan had previously posted and which  showed the address as Rhiwlas Villas.   The original form however showed that he lived at  No 2 Rhiwlas Villas so it wasn't a massive place as I first thought but was just one of a number of houses that are still there today.
E W Bartleet was listed as a border and the head of the household was shown as William Williams.    Strangely though, in a book on old Trefriw the book shows the Census for 1881 but shows Jane Williams  (housekeeper) as head of the family.
The original records showing William Williams would be the correct one though

Bartleet is shown as a farmer with 3000 acres and 3 shepherds so that is a sizeable farm, much larger than Gorswen but I've no idea where it was other than the reference to Cwm Eigiau.   I don't know offhand how the location  of the farm in Cwm Eigiau could be traced but there must be records somewhere.
It wasn't long afterwards (1884 I think) when he married Isobel and went off to New Zealand

Offline rhuddlan

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Re: Elias Family
« Reply #209 on: June 07, 2016, 05:28:57 pm »
The marriage was recorded in the quarter ended 3/1884 in Conway viz

Marriages Mar 1884   (>99%)
Bartleet    Ernest William        Conway    11b   599


 Zoopla refers to the property
as having... ( whether it did in 1881 I have no idea)...." Semi-detached house 7 Beds, 3 Baths, 3 Recepts."