Author Topic: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment  (Read 409086 times)

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Offline SteveH

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1065 on: August 24, 2014, 07:40:33 pm »
 GRANTS..... have a lot to answer for........       

Offline FatAndy

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1066 on: August 24, 2014, 07:57:56 pm »
Lastly as us council tax payers paid for the thing we are entitled to complain about for as long as we like as it is a big waste of OUR money!  &shake&

Did we pay for it?  I haven't seen any breakdown of the funding but my understanding was that most of the money came from the European Regional Development Fund and the Welsh Government's Flood and Coastal Erosion Risk Management scheme.  I'd much rather see European money being spent on improving the facilities in one the three towns this forum supposedly supports than being spent on non-existent olive groves in Italy.
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Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1067 on: August 24, 2014, 08:04:22 pm »
I suppose that ultimately the money came from taxpayers somewhere, after all we pay the EU in the first place. I would rather they had spent the money on the pier, failing that then the olive groves in Italy would have been better than imposing the skip on us!  :laugh: and I bet it is us council tax payers paying for the upkeep of it!
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Offline BMD

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1068 on: August 24, 2014, 11:35:23 pm »
Did we pay for it?  I haven't seen any breakdown of the funding but my understanding was that most of the money came from the European Regional Development Fund and the Welsh Government's Flood and Coastal Erosion Risk Management scheme.

Still waiting to hear on that question (in response to FOI). There was a total grant of £11,345,612, but it was for other things (sea defences engineering work, promenade enhancement and road improvement) besides Porth Eirias. I suspect Porth Eirias, being the least essential part of the work, was last in the queue for grant funds. And if a large chunk of the £4m for Porth Eirias came directly from taxpayer (not grant), then that might explain why CCBC have delayed so long in answering the question.

Offline FatAndy

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1069 on: August 25, 2014, 07:00:35 pm »
I suppose that ultimately the money came from taxpayers somewhere, after all we pay the EU in the first place. I would rather they had spent the money on the pier, failing that then the olive groves in Italy would have been better than imposing the skip on us!  :laugh: and I bet it is us council tax payers paying for the upkeep of it!

I have to say I find this attitude both shocking and disgraceful.  I realise that there is a majority in Llandudno who throw their toys out of the pram whenever some other part of the county gets a bit of investment but to say you'd rather see European money spent in a foreign country rather than one of the three towns this forum purports to represent is childish beyond belief.  How sad and bitter you must be.
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."

Emo Philips

Online Ian

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1070 on: August 25, 2014, 07:21:53 pm »
I think ME was using irony, FA. No invective, please.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1071 on: August 25, 2014, 07:28:04 pm »
I'm not sad and bitter, did you not see the smiley? quite the opposite in fact! But out of the choice you gave, yes I would rather see the money spent on Italian olive groves, at least they would benefit from it! On the other hand we have a building which looses money every year even though it is newly built!
    I would have preferred to see the money spent locally on useful projects like for instance Colwyn Bay Pier, Llandudno Pier Pavillion, must be numerous examples where that money could have been better spent!
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Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1072 on: August 25, 2014, 07:36:06 pm »
I realise that there is a majority in Llandudno who throw their toys out of the pram whenever some other part of the county gets a bit of investment.

I should point out that I don't live in Llandudno, but in Rhos on Sea, I'm very fond of a Colwyn Bay, in fact I'm there more often than I am in a Llandudno! I just want to see any money which goes to Colwyn Bay ( or any other part of the county) spent wisely, I firmly believe that the building of Porth Eirias for that much money was not wise!
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Offline Fester

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1073 on: August 25, 2014, 07:40:30 pm »
In the Red Corner,   from Rhos on Sea, weighing in at around 160lb,.......... MERDDIN EMRYS.

In the Blue Corner,  from Colwyn Bay,   weighing in at (presumably) considerably more.......... FAT...... ANDY!!!



The Venue for this titanic showdown?    Well of course........... The Colwyn Bay Skip!    :laugh: :laugh:
Fester...
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Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1074 on: August 25, 2014, 07:49:10 pm »
 _))*  _))*  Fester, good location, but not on the roof with those dangerous concrete blocks!  :laugh:
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Offline FatAndy

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1075 on: August 26, 2014, 09:04:56 am »
I'm not sad and bitter, did you not see the smiley? quite the opposite in fact! But out of the choice you gave, yes I would rather see the money spent on Italian olive groves, at least they would benefit from it! On the other hand we have a building which looses money every year even though it is newly built!
I would have preferred to see the money spent locally on useful projects like for instance Colwyn Bay Pier, Llandudno Pier Pavillion, must be numerous examples where that money could have been better spent!

I think what you're saying is that you'd rather see the money spent on things you'd personally find to be useful rather than things that others might find useful.  As I pointed out earlier what's useful to one person isn't necessarily useful to another and vice versa.  I'm more than happy that Porth Eirias was built because it means we can take the kids to the beach without having to drive all the way over the Penmaenmawr.  There are lots of other families who find it useful and not to mention the hoards of watersports enthusiasts who use it.  Apparently it's so popular you can't park there on a Sunday because there are so many of them.  So I'm more than happy for my council tax to be used to fund it.  If the council need to raise funds to support other projects then I'd much rather see them sell off the white elephant that is Venue Cymru, something that does genuinely bleed council tax payers dry.  I'm sure there must be a developer or two out there willing to pay a decent sum for the land so they can build granny flats on it.
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Emo Philips

Offline DaveR

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1076 on: August 26, 2014, 09:18:49 am »
I wonder if you're getting a little bit confused, Andy?

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I'm more than happy that Porth Eirias was built because it means we can take the kids to the beach without having to drive all the way over the Penmaenmawr

Porth Eirias is not the new beach, it is the actual building on the Prom. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the new beach is a bad idea?

Quote
not to mention the hoards of watersports enthusiasts who use it.  Apparently it's so popular you can't park there on a Sunday because there are so many of them

Just a bit of anectodal evidence...I was there in the middle of the afternoon yesterday (a Bank Holiday) and there was practically nothing going on, with the car park being over half empty. And the thing is, of course, that the watersports element only occupies about 10% of the building, with the rest standing pretty much empty. Do you not agree that £5m+ could have been spent in a far better way in that location?




Offline Dave

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1077 on: August 26, 2014, 10:01:40 am »
I think judging Porth Eirias on a wet Bank Holiday isn't going to give the best of pictures however .....
In the last couple of months we have been lucky to have had some brilliant weather. The promenades of both Llandudno and Colwyn Bay have been utilised for parking from one end to the other. Without a doubt Colwyn Bay's new beach has proved to be very popular which is great. It's what most folk want in a beach, not some sheer shingle drop in to the sea..but that's another story.
The point is that of all those people on the beaches very few were actually taking part in any water sports from what I could see. The Porth Eirias facility was irrelevant to people's enjoyment.
I think it's great if you can shower the kids there before packing them in the car but a few refurbished or new build toilets might have been an easier and cheaper option than building one central facility which is probably a long walk from where you managed to find a parking space. As far as an up market restaurant is concerned, do we seriously think this will turn around Colwyn Bay's fortunes as a holiday destination or does it just offer a celebrity chef the opportunity to have a hugely subsidised facility and increase his chances of making a profit.
It's a very valid point that not everyone will use all the facilities we have on offer locally but this doesn't mean they shouldn't be built. I have a feeling the short term cost per head for using the Llandudno slipway might exceed that of Porth Eirias although the former probably has a very low long term maintenance cost.It all depends on what you define as usage too.Parking the car on the latter to use the beach doesn't justify the cost of the building
Comparing Venue Cymru and the associated costs per head would be interesting because we know that thousands of people use it every year and when you have a limited budget isn't that the best way to judge if something is viable.


Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1078 on: August 26, 2014, 10:15:32 am »


I think what you're saying is that you'd rather see the money spent on things you'd personally find to be useful rather than things that others might find useful.  As I pointed out earlier what's useful to one person isn't necessarily useful to another and vice versa.  I'm more than happy that Porth Eirias was built because it means we can take the kids to the beach without having to drive all the way over the Penmaenmawr.  There are lots of other families who find it useful and not to mention the hoards of watersports enthusiasts who use it.  Apparently it's so popular you can't park there on a Sunday because there are so many of them.  So I'm more than happy for my council tax to be used to fund it.  If the council need to raise funds to support other projects then I'd much rather see them sell off the white elephant that is Venue Cymru, something that does genuinely bleed council tax payers dry.  I'm sure there must be a developer or two out there willing to pay a decent sum for the land so they can build granny flats on it.

That's not what I'm saying, the beach is great, ideal for families, it is the building I object to, as you mention Venue Cymru losing money it seems CCBC learnt nothing from that so they built another money losing building in Colwyn Bay! I'm happy for facilities to be created that I have no personal use for, but it seems reasonable to hope that they are needed and financially sustainable!
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Colwyn Bay Waterfront Redevelopment
« Reply #1079 on: August 26, 2014, 10:18:58 am »
A couple of years back, I suggested that the redevelopment of the Prom between Old Colwyn and Rhos should incorporate a number of buildings along its length, each one incorporating a small cafe with inside/outside seating area, public toilets, kiosk to sell buckets and spades etc. This would seem to have been a far cheaper and more sensible suggestion than the building of Porth Eirias.