Author Topic: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding  (Read 46189 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2012, 07:21:31 pm »

Offline jom

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2012, 07:12:46 am »
Thanks dwsi.  As yet I have no other HUGHES family than Sarah and her father Robert till Cambrain gave us that snippet from Ken Dibble.  I will need to follow William Hugh HUGHES back to see where it takes me.

I see Ken Dibble is quuoted in Christopher Draper's book but but in earlier times, the book being "Lady of Little Orme"  I googled him and found he seems to have written several booklets but none are really mentioned by title.

Thanks for the pictures again Hugo.  You must have a wonderful repository if that's not too rude.  ;D
I have noticed since Cambrian's info on Sarah's siblings that the 1841 census shows a Robert and Ann HUGHES next door but one to Robert Snr.  The age however would make him born 10 years too early.  i did follow them through to 1851 making the same birth year.  Ann HUGHES seemingly survived Robert to the 1861 census. Too coincidental ... answers on a postcard please :laugh:

Thanks also re the entries for both Moses JONES.  I have seen these before and currently don't think either are my man.  The kids don't tally with Hugh's siblings.  I have them as Hugh bn abt 1797 John bn abt 1798 Mary bn abt 1800 Hugh bn abt 1802 Elizabeth bn abt 1803 Hugh bn abt 1806 Ellin bn abt 1809 and Ann bn abt 1815.  my source is Freereg baptismal files for Gyffin.

Look forward to any more ideas.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2012, 11:22:57 am »
You have a copy of Chris Draper's book so you can see on pg 180 a copy of the yearly rental due to Gloddaeth Estate.   Hugh Jones is shown on there as paying £2. 2s a year for the rental of Rofft  ( the croft) 
It is the same place I was thinking about and would have been in the area of the Black Gate and bottom of Llwynon Road somewhere near where Rofft Place is nowadays.
I'll see if I can find the exact location of Pentre Uchaf and Yr Rofft when I go to the Archives next.

Offline dwsi

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2012, 01:09:05 pm »
Didn't we find Yr Rofft by Black Gate in the 'Great Orme cemetery' thread?

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2012, 04:48:22 pm »
That was Rofft Bach Dwsi when we were looking for one of the Roberts' relatives.    That building was knocked down and now one of our members lives there and enjoys some fantastic views from his property.
I think Yr Rofft was a larger building than Rofft Bach and may have been across the road and nearer the present Rofft Place.

Offline jom

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 05:15:35 am »
hi Hugo.  Yes I have noted the entry, cheers.  be grateful for anything you turn up just when you're next there or so.  Don't want to put you out. 

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 10:42:39 am »
Just a thought Jom, have you got a copy of the Birth Certificate of Hugh Jones?   That may give you the address of Moses Jones and in those days people didn't usually travel too far from their home.
Alternatively in later Census years the form should show where Hugh was born and this again might be an indicator for Moses Jones.
In the Conwy Archives they have a Burial Record for all the Churches in the Conwy County.  They record the graves with inscriptions on them and are easy to find as they are also listed alphabetically.  Also Moses Jones is not a common name even then.
I have already looked at the books for Llandudno  St Tudno's, St Hilary's Llanrhos and the Baptist one in Glanwydden but your Moses Jones is not listed among them.  Will have a look at the other books asap but if you do know where Hugh Jones was born would you please post it.

Offline Bri Roberts

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 10:58:50 am »
Hugo, sorry to butt in but civil registration did not commence until 1837 and it seems Hugh Jones was born in 1807.

jom did very well to obtain a marriage certificate for October 1837.

Local baptism records will appear to be the answer.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 12:26:49 pm »
Thanks very much for pointing that out Bri.  Prior to 1837 the Births were registered with the Parish Church but that won't help in Jom's case though.
Later Census forms after 1841 could give Hugh Jones' place of birth and that would be a start.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 03:35:09 pm »
I was in town today so I called at the Library and had a look at Ancestry.      I found Hugh Jones in the 1851 Census living at Adwy Rhydd with his wife Sarah and their numerous children.   Hugh's place of birth was given as Car Cyffin.   This in modern day terms is Caernarfonshire  Gyffin.
So in effect Hugh Jones was born in Gyffin and later moved to Yr Rofft Llandudno and then to Adwy Rhydd.

I then in the 1841 Census traced Moses Jones to Derwen Deg in Gyffin and as I have posted previously his age in the Census was listed as 60 (but could be anywhere in between 60 and 64) and he lived there with his wife Anne and son Richard aged 25.

Now you say that you have seen these previously and discounted them, was there any reason for that?  There are certain things that match up, for instance Hugh and Moses were both born in Gyffin.  Moses who was born about 1781 is the right age to be Hugh's father and Richard could have been a younger brother.

When I did the search for Moses Jones in the 1841 Wales Census there were only about 5 Moses Jones in the Country so the chances of there being another in Gyffin is  quite remote.  The Parish Church for Gyffin could have the birth records and confirm this one way or another.
I didn't search the burial records for the Conwy area only those for Llandudno but now that I know that Hugh Jones was from Gyffin I'll look at those too.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 05:29:14 pm »
I've only just read this on the forum   " Chronicle of events in Conwy"   by Thomas Roberts and kindly prepared by Rob Pritchard.

It is a fascinating read, especially to those people with Conwy connections.

I was really enjoying reading each item and then at No 174   look what popped up    :o
 No 174   Moses Jones of Dderwendeg Parish Gyffin buried 7th October 1842.

No wonder I couldn't find him on the 1851 Census!

Derwen Deg  ( Fair Oak) is where Moses was living in the 1841 Census.   Was he Hugh's father??     ???

Offline jom

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 10:53:10 pm »
Thanks one and all for your thoughts and searches. 

As you say Hugh was born before civil registration as were all his apparent siblings.  So no help there.  He was born in Gyffin as per the census returns as you have found, Hugo.  The reason I have previously discounted the Moses you suggest is that the Free Reg site baptismal files suggest Moses and Ann had the following children Hugh bn abt 1797, John bn abt 1798, Mary bn abt 1800, Hugh bn abt 1802, Elizabeth bn abt 1803, Hugh bn abt 1806 (Mine), Ellin bn abt 1809 and Ann bn abt 1815 and felt Moses wasn't old enough but I suppose looking back, he was just about, particularly if you take into account age discrepency built in to the 1841 census. 

FreeReg doesn't show a Richard JONES for Moses and Ann though I know not all files are complete etc.  Mind you his apparent age would fit in nicely as the last of the siblings.  Moses was listed as an Ag. Lab on the 1841 census and a miner on Hugh's marriage cert.  I know that ag lab supplemented their income down the mines and presumably as folk got old would have found land work easier than mining so can't exclude on that account.  I think I felt generally, the data didn't fit in quite well enough to take him as my Moses.  Only being able to research via the net means I am a little cagey at claiming them as mine.

Been so long formulating my reply that I've only just seen your additional post , Hugo re Moses' burial.  I must admit that the more background you folk offer up, the more I wonder if he is my Moses.  Don't know if I said but strangely I have another Moses JONES on another Welsh branch of my tree!!  Not from Gyffin though :roll:  I'll visit that posting, thanks

Offline jom

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 11:14:49 pm »
Chronicle of events ...  As you say a very interesting read.  Would never have found it without you Hugo, Thanks $thanx$

Offline Hugo

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2012, 06:46:50 pm »
I've not heard of the Free Reg site for Baptisms so I can't look at the info that you have found but understand that you need irrefutable proof before you can say that a family member is yours.
I'm in the Archives again next week so I'll look at the Baptism records and see if they have any for this period and whether they can cast any light on the matter.
It's strange that Moses had three sons all called Hugh,  I wonder why.

Offline jom

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Re: Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 10:38:37 pm »
I can only suppose that 2 died, Hugo but have found no evidence as yet.  Records on the net before 1837 are very limited.  I agree re the irrefutable proof by the way and always do my utmost to check all my sources, hence my request to Cambrian re Ken Dibble's book.   $good$