The Great Orme

[Helig]

I read the news about the council boarding up caves on the Great Orme. This was inhumane and distasteful, the thought of homeless people being unable to have a roof over their heads at this time of year, even if only a cave roof. The caves have provided shelter and homes to man and beast for thousands of years. Why shouldn't this continue?

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/great-orme-caves-sealed-stop-12283276

In view of the fact the Great Orme is a Country Park and Local Nature Reserve, I wonder if the council's action is lawful. The caves must be covered by the Country Park designation and to interfere with these would appear to contravene this surely?

I remember Ted Yr Ogof, he grew up in a cave on the Orme, along with his family who had lived there for years. I cannot see how the council can restrict the use of the caves in such a mean spirited manner.

Helig

[Hugo]

Helig, it's not quite as simple as you've put it.  Raymond Burton was living in that cave featured on the video a few years ago and was found a home in the town but he abused the kindness and efforts of the people who rehoused him and because of this he finds himself homeless again.
A few years ago I was opposite this cave taking photo and having a nice chat with a guy when another drug addict who also lived in the cave tried to pick a fight with me so I don't have too much sympathy for those people who are in this position because of the problems they have inflicted upon themselves.

[DaveR]

Hmmm, do you think its acceptable for someone to live in a cold and damp cave in the 21st century? It cant be said there are no alternatives available, the council is obliged to house homeless people.

[born2run]

Hmmm, do you think its acceptable for someone to live in a cold and damp cave in the 21st century? It cant be said there are no alternatives available, the council is obliged to house homeless people.

No they don't. Only certain people.

http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-information/public-housing/homeless-people.html

[SteveH]

I believe the local councillors were getting a lot of complaints about the homeless on the Orme, including suspicion over the recent fires.

I also think a lot of these people do not want to be homed, which raises the question of mental health issues, which is another problem that needs to be addressed.

[Ian]

There are alternatives but some folk find themselves unable to take advantage of them. Can be very sad, too.

[Hugo]

I remember Ted Yr Ogof, he grew up in a cave on the Orme, along with his family who had lived there for years. I cannot see how the council can restrict the use of the caves in such a mean spirited manner.

Helig

By the way Helig it was Ted Yr Ogof's ancestors who lived in Gogarth Cave.  Isaac and Miriam lived there until about 1877 when the Marine Drive was being built.   Miriam refused to move out until Mostyn Estates provided her with a home which they did and she move to the cottage on the Marine Drive where she ran the Gogarth Tea Rooms.   The last time I saw Ted he was living in a house behind the old Woolworths.

[Helig]

I am not saying that people live/stay in the caves from choice but they must be desperate for some sort of roof and shelter, in the winter months especially. In an ideal world everyone would live in a decent home but the country we live in doesn't accept people have the right to decent housing. The way it has gone, it has returned to the Victorian era with slums and slum landlords who succeed in obtaining extortionate rents but fail to maintain their properties.

I am sure that if the people who have been staying in the caves would prefer to have a conventional home but are not being housed for whatever reason the system decides they fail to qualify for one. In the circumstances, I think that it is inhumane for the council to treat them in this way. The boarded up caves must be an eyesore as well.

Helig.

[Hugo]

I've attached an article about Raymond Burton one of the so called "cavemen" who after all the help he has been given threw it all back at the people who helped him.
I think that we are talking about drug addicts and alcoholics here rather than the unfotunate homeless people who through no fault of their own find themselves in that position.
It's sad to see anyone in this position but who is to blame in this case?
If you have been reading the threads on Rhos on Sea then you will know about Jonathon Hughes and his situation
As for slums and slum landlords then there are authorities that can deal with that problem but that is another matter

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjC1tTdvOnQAhVhKMAKHSiOBjgQFgghMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailypost.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fnorth-wales-news%2Fllandudno-cave-man-spat-police-11246659&usg=AFQjCNE0gaLn5_XR-LG2oRmcPQ03yyO56g

[Nemesis]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/world/unemployed-family-8-turns-down-2-5-bedroom-homes-being-too-small-racks-massive-hotel-bill?Fb=shred

A similar story here !!

Just as a matter of interest how many people are we talking about here in Llandudno who were living rough?

[Hugo]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/world/unemployed-family-8-turns-down-2-5-bedroom-homes-being-too-small-racks-massive-hotel-bill?Fb=shred

A similar story here !!

Just as a matter of interest how many people are we talking about here in Llandudno who were living rough?

It makes your blood boil to hear these stories,  when will these people take some responsibility and live according to their means.

[Merddin Emrys]

No idea why they have 8 children without being able to support them? Why should us taxpayers pay for them? 

[SteveH]

I wonder what would happen, if a Brit. Turned up in France, ........Ive come to study under the EU freedom of movement system, can I have a 6bed house for my wife and 8 kids, rent free and some social as well.........

[Fester]

Please stop blurring the issue, it's very straightforward really.

People who are struggling for shelter should of course be allowed to temporarily inhabit a cave.

People who abuse alcohol, class A drugs and continually trash conventional accommodation should not.
If anyone disagrees, or thinks me uncaring, then please offer them the spare room in YOUR house.

Is it OK if one of the children who live on the Orme and might play in those caves to play with the needles or broken glass these individuals leave behind?

[SteveH]

Sheep will return to the Great Orme.
The 360-strong flock will graze on the grassland to encourage the survival of rare plants and animals.
Sheep have not been seen on the headland since the foot and mouth crisis more than a decade ago. Ref BBC