Author Topic: National politics  (Read 159835 times)

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Helig

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1080 on: October 16, 2020, 02:25:48 PM »
The current situation reminds me of that famous quote of Nye Bevan concerning the nature of the Tories. He said they were, "lower than vermin". This is the quotation in full:

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Helig

Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1081 on: October 16, 2020, 03:24:09 PM »
...and he was too kind.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1082 on: October 16, 2020, 04:53:54 PM »
Now here is an easy quiz question:-

David Lloyd George     Liberal  introduced the OAP in 1909

Nye Bevan    Labour   introduced the NHS in 1949

Now the question is:-      what radical introduction has been  done by the Tories in their many years in office that has benefited each and every person in the UK?

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1083 on: October 17, 2020, 11:59:35 AM »
No guesses?    I thought that it would be easy but I've googled it and nothing has come up, so perhaps that's the answer, nothing!

Blongb

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  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: National politics
« Reply #1084 on: October 17, 2020, 01:04:42 PM »
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No guesses?    I thought that it would be easy but I've googled it and nothing has come up, so perhaps that's the answer, nothing!

Except having to put the economy back on an even keel after spinthrift Labour Governments left the Country on the edge of Bankruptcy through their lack of understanding of economics.

Remember it was a Labour administration that gave the USSR the design for Rolls Royce jet engines, later found in Mig 15 which shot down and killed our airmen in Korea.

Remember it was a Labour administration that squandered the revenue we should have got from North Sea Oil (remember the pound in your pocket will still be worth a pound).

Remember it was a Labour administration that failed to control Communist controlled Unions that thought they had more right to run the country than the elected Government .

Take the rose coloured specs off, they are all as bad as each other, it's just some are more inept than others. Having said that a question for you, what do you call 650 MP's chained together at the bottom of the river Thames?
A very good start.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1085 on: October 17, 2020, 03:46:54 PM »
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No guesses?    I thought that it would be easy but I've googled it and nothing has come up, so perhaps that's the answer, nothing!

Remember it was a Labour administration that gave the USSR the design for Rolls Royce jet engines, later found in Mig 15 which shot down and killed our airmen in Korea.

It's not quite as simple as that, B. Russia was our ally in WWII, so selling (not giving) the Nene engine to them was a commercial decision. In any case, the war had given the Germans a lead, after they'd used Whittle's patent illegally, and the US was given the information, with Whittle leading the team, and they used the information to give Boeing a world lead, without paying the UK a penny, so international skulduggery was rife at the time. I doubt it's fair to blame either Labour or Tories.

The Unions isn't a simple matter, either; it was more to do with the culture that arose in a disillusioned UK following WWII that led to a huge decline n UK manufacturing. Outdated voting practices made it easy for troublemakers to control things in Unions, but the social legacy persists at places like Landrover to this day.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1086 on: October 17, 2020, 04:05:59 PM »
I had forgotten about all the money raised by the Tories in the 1980's when they sold off the National assets at discounted prices.    Mainly to the large public companies but they did allow Joe Public a little indulgence
I just wish that I could have bought my house with a 40% discount like the Tories did with the Council Houses      &shake&

I do agree with you though that both the main Parties are as bad as each other.         

Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

Re: National politics
« Reply #1086 on: October 17, 2020, 04:05:59 PM »


Robbie G

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1087 on: October 17, 2020, 05:53:04 PM »
 Churchill gave you freedom Hugo free speech otherwise you would be speaking German now ,also I believe you were a public sector worker Mrs Thatcher gave you index linked pension ( unsustainable I might add )and finally Boris has given us freedom from the  E. U. but you are free to criticise who you like 

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1088 on: October 17, 2020, 07:07:36 PM »
If I'm not mistaken Robbie,  Ted Heath took us into Europe so perhaps Boris is just correcting a wrong.      As for Mrs Thatcher she was a good leader even if her policies weren't always for everyone and she also gave herself and her ilk index linked pensions so I'm grateful for that and I even joined the others when she was dishing out the nations assets.
As for Winston, a good leader in war but not in peacetime as he found out when the war ended
We all have the freedom of choice and if you are happy with Boris and the Tory policies then so be it.

Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1089 on: October 17, 2020, 07:55:38 PM »
Hmmm... This isn't a simple topic but I have managed to find out some information.

It was in fact the pensions (Increase) Act of 1971 that had been passed in Parliament in 1970 by the Labour Government of Harold Wilson that made provision for inflation proofed pensions. It was Thatcher, in fact, who instigated the Scott Inquiry which she directed to examine if index linking was appropriate. She also chose to implement a deduction of between 3 and 8.5% per annum from civil servant salaries to compensate for the index linking.

The Inquiry recommended that “the most fruitful approach…would be to preserve index-linking of pensions but to increase the contributions of those in work.”

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“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1090 on: October 18, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
Thanks for putting the matter straight Ian.         $good$
 I was surprised when Mrs Thatcher's name was mentioned as she is more known for snatching than for giving, especially when it comes to the working class

Helig

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1091 on: October 18, 2020, 04:03:34 PM »
The unions were created to fight the exploitation of the workers who were paid low and worked hard for centuries. The demarcation disputes were often cited as being one of the ways the workers were being difficult. In reality these were due to workers asked to do work, other than their specific job, then being injured, or killed, and employers disclaiming liability as they weren't doing the work they were paid to do.

Thatcher set about destroying the unions, the miners in particular. The state was engaged in all manner of unlawful actions in order to do this. The book, "The Enemy Within" by Seamus Milne gives a thorough account of all the dirty tricks used by the police and security services.

My gt grandfather was one of those who formed one of the first railway trade unions. I think he would be sickened by the destruction of the unions which means that people these days are exploited once again. Zero hours contracts, the so called gig economy, short term contracts, there are few permanent jobs with decent conditions these days.

The Tories have returned the work world to favour the rich bosses and companies at the expense of their workers. Look at Amazon, just one of many to have poor working conditions and treating employees badly.

Helig

Robbie G

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1092 on: October 18, 2020, 04:45:00 PM »
Helig  while what you say is correct i have been on sites where you lost a days pay because you had left your union card at home ,because some union official would decide to have a show of cards for no apparent reason .The unions contributed to their own downfall ,just remember the winter of discontent .
I am not a card carrying member of any political party and each and every party  has it fair share of good M.Ps.  I struggle to name any mind as for Mrs Thatcher she had no choice but to take on the unions we could not carry on having wild cat strikes on the whim of some union official the Yorkshire miners and other areas rejected Scargills call for strike action but the South Wales coalfield gave their support there was only one winner it was pretty obvious who was going to succeed .As for Amazon I never use them  but it seems pretty obvious the general public think they give a good service that is why they are so successful .