Author Topic: National politics  (Read 136969 times)

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SteveH

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1035 on: November 07, 2019, 03:39:40 PM »
Blongb,  This might explain some of the reasons, for the decisions made.

I was a firefighter at Grenfell Tower.         ref The Independent 13th June 2018

I attended the Grenfell Tower fire as a firefighter in a relief crew long after the fire originally started, and I have since retired. I wasn’t present during the earliest stages, although I have many friends and colleagues who were. And I’ve decided to speak out primarily because I find the conspiracy theories and insults on all sides in the aftermath of the fire particularly distressing.

I have attended dozens of high-rise fires in my 31 years as a London firefighter. The number of blocks I’ve visited or conducted inspections on probably number in the hundreds. I spent nine years teaching, among other things, high-rise procedure to new recruits.

The “stay put” policy has been in for a lot of criticism since Grenfell, with claims that it led to the deaths of residents and that firefighters continued to give bad advice even after it was “obvious” that fire was being spread across the building by cladding. Since then, some residents in domestic houses have contacted the fire service to ask if we want them to stay put (no we don’t). Occupants of high-rise flats have wondered if “stay put” is no longer policy (it is).

In fact, the “stay put” policy is the only thing that can work routinely in a residential high-rise building, and here is why.

The building is designed to contain fire in each individual flat and for the stairways especially to remain clear of smoke and heat. This is why it is vital all doors are fire doors and closed in the event of fire (which also means working door closers and smoke seals on all doors are essential).

If everyone were to evacuate around the same time, opening doors as they did so, this would immediately compromise the fire safety of the building. Aside from all the crush injuries, if all residents opened all their doors and the doors to the stairwell at the same time, heat and smoke would intrude into the only escape route. This could create a chimney effect, spreading fire, and result in loss of life. Quite simply, moving away from a “stay put” policy will kill people.

This is why you are not allowed integrated alarms or communal fire alarms in nearly all residential high-rise buildings. You aren’t supposed to hear alarms because you aren’t supposed to evacuate. Only the flat affected is supposed to evacuate. This is also why there were no fire drills at Grenfell. There shouldn’t be. 

I would like to recommend reading the full interview   follow link or search  " I was a fire fighter at Grenfell tower"
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Blongb

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1036 on: November 08, 2019, 03:22:48 PM »
I've read what the Professional Fire Fighter said about staying put at Grenfell as that was the accepted policy at the time, but look what happened as a result of that policy:

Another instance was the disastrous fire at Manchester Airport involving an British Airtours 737. when the aircraft stopped the Cabin Crew were told by the Pilot to wait for the firecrews to arrive as he had stopped by the fire station. Fortunately an ex RAF man who had personal experience of an aircraft fire in the Far East, opened the front cabin door at his own volition,which directly resulted in the saving of 82 lives.

My last example is of the Piper Alpha disaster, I worked offshore with a Helideck Landing Officer who was on P.A. the night it blew-up. During a quiet moment I asked him how had he managed to survive when so many had perished. He said he ignored the stupid advice from the Rig Managers to stay put and wait to be rescued. He ran through fire and jumped 120 ft into the North Sea against all the safety advice at that time. The Fire should have killed him, the Fall should have killed him and being in the Sea in the middle of winter should have killed him. but he survived because he knew in a fire you put as much distance between you and it in the quickest possible time as you can.

In a FIRE you evacuate as quickly as is humanly possible 
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1037 on: November 27, 2019, 08:56:13 AM »
A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login manipulation...
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1038 on: November 29, 2019, 03:22:13 PM »
A column by Boris Johnson in which he raged against working-class communities has come back to haunt him.

The Prime Minister blasted "blue collar" men and claimed many were criminals - without offering any evidence.
He said the "modern British male is useless", adding: "If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment."

The comments were made in a rant in The Spectator magazine in 1995 about the number of single mums in Britain.

He complained the "proliferation of single mothers" was costing taxpayers Ł9.1billion a year and producing a generation of "ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate children".


mull

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1039 on: November 29, 2019, 05:57:25 PM »
well the Prime Minister should know-------- Illegitimate children------ Is he having a laugh ?

DVT

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1040 on: November 29, 2019, 09:07:37 PM »
Isn't it amazing how someone can find quotes from 20+ years ago in order to turn voters against certain people ... totally wrong how the media is trying to manipulate the election.

You might not like what the quote says ... but aren't there elements of truth in much of it?

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1041 on: November 30, 2019, 09:28:06 AM »
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Isn't it amazing how someone can find quotes from 20+ years ago in order to turn voters against certain people ... totally wrong how the media is trying to manipulate the election.

You might not like what the quote says ... but aren't there elements of truth in much of it?

This is what the press do DVT  but isn't it nice to know what Boris thinks of the working class people?     That includes the likes of you and I and millions more.   

Anyway here are a few more recent gaffes to add to the list

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Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1042 on: November 30, 2019, 09:43:28 AM »
For a more recent analysis, this sums up Johnson quite well: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1043 on: December 05, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
I remember living in a Salvation Army Hostel in Liverpool in 1965 and watching the General Election results being announced on the TV in the evening.    Every Labour victory was greeted with a cheer as it gave a ray of hope to many who were there as they knew how the Tories would treat the working class

I wonder what those Labour MP's would think of the present Labour leadership?      The Three Amigos who are at the helm of the present day party are just beyond belief      Corbyn. McDonnell and Diane Abbott are just a group of  indecisive, fantasists and Marxists and must be the worst example of Labour politicians in living memory.

As for Boris, he's a liar and buffoon who has made politics into a pantomime farce so what happens next week is anyone's guess
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mull

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1044 on: December 05, 2019, 08:49:43 PM »
Hi Hugo.

Well said.


Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #1045 on: December 06, 2019, 09:24:17 AM »
I agree.   

But Johnson has ducked the Andrew Neil interview by refusing to say whether he'll submit to it. This strategy is designed to stop the BBC running the interview without him, with Andrew Neil simply revealing the questions he had for Johnson.

We know Johnson is a liar; he's been sacked for that in the past, but if he doesn't say he will submit in the next three days, Neil should present the interview without him.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.