Obstacles to Tourism in Llandudno

[Ian]

You're good at taking things out of context

Indeed? It's what you've said - nothing more.

Let's get this straight.  You berated Fester for 'generalising'. That's a fact. You then proceeded to generalise. Your defence is because the employees of a company dedicated to litter law enforcement don't constitute a religion it's fine to abuse them? Whether I agree with you or not has no bearing on this. You are generalising about a company's employees, which you seem to think is quite acceptable, when you feel that generalising about a religious group isn't. 

Doesn't vilifying employees go against the grain?

[born2run]

I have said as a whole I don't agree with what this company do
I have said that as a whole this company's employees use harassment and intimidation in order to get 'results'

I'm not generalising at all because this is merely my opinion of these people based around what they do with regards to their work.

It is not a personal generalisation or attack of a group of people based purely on religion or race but an opinion based on what this company openly does for a living.

two completely different things.

As I'm sure you clearly see, but are being reactionary purely for the sake of it.

 ££$

[Ian]

It is not a personal generalisation or attack of a group of people

They are little more than gangsters in uniforms running a racket. They are scum

You may disagree with what the company does and how they do it, but does that give you the right to call the employees en masse 'scum,'?

[Yorkie]

Irrespective of what we think of these Litter etc. Wardens, it is as well to realise they are, in fact, a civilian version of the Police.  They police certain offences which have been decriminalised and can therefore be dealt with by Fixed Penalty Notices.  Just like any other appointed officer some are a little more exuberant than others and will issue a FPN at any opportunity.  Others will take a more soft approach and give just a warning for minor infringements.
This difference in approach to the job is also found in the Council's own Parking Wardens who do not receive any incentive to do their job or any special targets to achieve.

If one is aggrieved by the manner in which they, or others, are treated, there is the safety net of an appeals procedure which is generally regarded as thorough and fair.
 ££$

[Fester]

Anyone passing comment on the activities of these 'operatives', should spend some time (as I have) watching them in action.
Also, you will see the disproportionate effect they have on their 'prey'
Until you have witnessed their appearance, activities and over-zealous methods, I do not believe that you can have a balanced opinion.

Therefore, on balance, having weighed up everything posted here, and annoying though he can often be...I come down on the side of.........

............ BORN TO RUN!

[Ian]

Until you have witnessed their appearance, activities and over-zealous methods, I do not believe that you can have a balanced opinion.

From Born2run

There's a chance, a very small one, that every single one you have ever encountered has been abrupt and aggressive, but there is no way you have met every single one of them and so your labelling of them is ,as I pointed out, 'a terrible generalisation'  You cannot label a whole set of people as abrupt and aggressive.

I'm not debating the issue of their existence, their attitudes or their behaviour; I'm simply curious as to how someone can be so adamant that it's wrong to make generalisations about a group, then makes...er, generalisations about a group. They may well be dreadful human beings, hiding in nooks and crannies and awaiting their opportunity to pounce on the unwary nun for dropping holy water by accident. I can't speak to the veracity or otherwise of those comments, other than to note we don't have sufficient disinterested evidence to make a judgement.

[DaveR]

I see the Baytree traffic island has now been reinstated.

I wonder how many bits of broken pavement in town could have been repaired with that £10,000. 

[bigbadhenry]

Litter Wardens should spend some time between John Brights School and Asda/McDonald's.
The pupils buy lunch there and guess what happens to the packaging.

[FatAndy]

I see the Baytree traffic island has now been reinstated.

I wonder how many bits of broken pavement in town could have been repaired with that £10,000. 

Hosting the Tour will probably bring in a £1,000,000+ boost to the Conwy economy so I can't see any problem with spending £10,000 to make that happen.  In fact I'd have be extremely disappointed if Conwy Council hadn't seen the big picture here and I'm sure lots of local business would have been pretty peed off to lose out on a cash windfall if the council hadn't acted as they did.  Maybe some of the extra money can be put to good use and spent on the really important matters that concern us all like planting more petunias along Llandudno promenade .

[DaveR]

Hosting the Tour will probably bring in a £1,000,000+ boost to the Conwy economy

Probably? Not definitely then? Where did you get this figure from; can it be quantified or is it just pr spin? 

[born2run]

I would hope they are not allowed to prey on Children.

Ian, however nice and lovely and charming some of the employees may well be, I couldn't care less, I do not like what they do nor the way they do it. They may well spend their evenings saving kittens and helping the homeless but that doesn't change my opinion of the fact that during the hours they are doing that job I think they are scum.
The fine is disproportionate to the offence - they do not wear high vis and therefore don't have intentions of stopping people dropping litter but rather waiting in prey to 'catch' someone. Thirdly and most importantly to me they don't know or care who they are victimising - that person may be elderly (or young and naive as in Fester's example) they may have a debilitating physical or mental illness and I don't believe these people are equipped or adequately trained (as the Police are) to deal with these issues.
I'm sure if you had a vulnerable friend or family member who had been accosted by these people and had been left traumatised after the indecent, you yourself would feel quite differently.

The only evidence I need to base my 'generalisation' of these people on is the fact they are willing to do this job, nothing more, nothing less.

That's my answer Ian, if you're not happy with it I'm sorry.

[FatAndy]

Hosting the Tour will probably bring in a £1,000,000+ boost to the Conwy economy

Probably? Not definitely then? Where did you get this figure from; can it be quantified or is it just pr spin? 

It's probably too early to tell but I'm guestimating and maybe being a but conservative in my guestimate given that last year, for example, when the tour passed through Devon is provided a £5.9m boost to the local economy - http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Tour-Britain-returns-economic-boost-Devon/story-22045814-detail/story.html.

I've also seen elsewhere that each stage of the Tour generates a net visitor spend of £3m and as the finishing line seems to be the centre of attention each day I'd guess that the area where the finishing line is located gets a fair share of that £3m.

http://brightonandhoveindependent.co.uk/wiggins-tour-britain-confirmation-boost/

Whatever the actual figure turns out to be I'm sure it will be well in excess of the economic boost provided by any number of flower beds on Llandudno promenade  .

[DaveR]

So you're actually just guessing then? 

I wonder if any of the local traders on the forum can comment on whether they received a share of the supposed £1,000,000 boost to the economy on Monday?

[Bri Roberts]

or from the other supposedly £1,000,000 from the Wales Rally GB.

Sometimes, I think the organisers of these events should be paying CCBC to allow them to come here.

[andyCYD]

Surely everyone has said what they need to about the litter wardens. And the Tour of Britain has been and gone - some of you think it was great and others may not.

Perhaps we can have an 'ongoing arguments' topic on the forum so that the topics that interest me do not become cluttered with disagreements between individuals.

Thanks