Author Topic: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno  (Read 29621 times)

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Offline krasejc

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Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« on: April 30, 2012, 03:27:11 pm »
Hi Forum,

I'm a research student at Bangor University. I'm nearing the end of my studies (and writing up my dissertation) but I wanted to ask you lovely, knowledgeable people if you have any memories of the Jewish community that used to be in Llandudno. I'm aware that the old synagogue in Church Walks is now run as a Chabad centre, and I know that many orthodox Jewish visitors come to Llandudno every year, but I am talking about the people who lived in Llandudno, had businesses, etc... I know that the Lazar family ran a business there till the 1970s or 1980s? Any memories, reminiscences, or anything like that- or better yet pictures or memorabilia- would be helpful.

And if you were a member of the Jewish community then I would love to speak to you personally! I am aware that many people retired away to London and Birmingham to be nearer to their children.

Many thanks,

Jennifer

Offline Quiggs

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 05:23:51 pm »
Hi Jennifer, I don't know if this account is what you are after, but here goes.   When we got married in 1961, we bought a bed from Joe Lazar, when he learned we had just got married he gave us the headboard for free.       A few years later we moved to a flat in Gogarth Rd. opposite to Joe's house. My son learned to ride his Fairy Cycle around the cul-de-sac, terminating outside Joe's house and consequently got to know Joe and Vicky, his wife, and was often to be found in their kitchen, being given drinks, biscuits etc.  When my son started in Lloyd St. School, Joe saw my wife taking him to school one wet morning and gave them a lift in his Humber Sceptre, a rather nice motor, he told my wife that as he was going to work at that time of day, he would take my son to school, to save my wife going, as by that time we had another infant to look after.  Such was the generosity of the Lazar family.
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Offline Bellringer

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 05:55:32 pm »
When we lived in Salisbury Court (off Gloddaeth Avenue), our next door neighbour was the late Percy Davies who I understand ran a business with his sister Lily in Madoc Street. Percy was introduced to me by the late Jack Berry who described Percy as an 'unorthodox Jew'. Don't really know what he meant by that.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 06:35:53 pm »
There are a number of Jewish families in and around the area both passed on and alive, but quite frankly, I am opposed to putting their names on this site without their permission.  And I would certainly wish to know a lot more about the person making the enquiries before saying or doing anything!  Perhaps other people should give this advice some consideration.    ;)   
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Offline Cambrian

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 09:04:06 pm »
I think Yorkie has a point.  I can think of a least two Jewish families still in town.
One a historical note, I have read that during the last war a rabbi took his own life in a house near the Links.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 09:15:54 pm »
I have run a check on the person enquiring, others can do the same and form their own opinion.  Twitter is a good start, or just a plain old Google search.    WWW

I am, of course, presuming the personal information given by "Jennifer" is correct and she is indeed  J C Krase.
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
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Offline Helig

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 12:04:32 pm »
Hello Jennifer,

I have some information which may be helpful to you.

My mother was born and bred in Llandudno and my grandmother (and family) lived there for about 80 of her 88 years.

My mother spoke about her young years in the town and these included during WW2. At that time the Jewish community from Golder's Green and other London Jewish communities such as Stamford Hill, relocated out of London to Llandudno. She knew four Jewish sisters who lived in St David's Road. Two of these stayed in the town, married and lived there for the rest of their lives. There were many others like them and I think the Lazar family may have been one of these.

The other long standing Jewish family in the town was the Gubay family. They were from India and came to Llandudno in the early days about 1910-20. I think there history may have been covered elswhere on this site. I can provide you with more details if not.

Helig.

Offline Llechwedd

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 12:05:32 pm »
Dr Salisbury in Craig y don looked after many of us and was a lovely man.  Also Izzy Croop had a furniture shop and you could pay him weekly.  He also collected milk bottle tops from his customers and gave them to North Wales Fund for the Blind to raise money for guide dogs.  I think he was recognised for all his hard work. His shop is now the RSPCA charity shop.
The Mansons and her Mother Mrs Benjamin lived in Abbey Road and Cecil managed Wartskis.

These people are all long gone so I see no harm in mentioning them and their contributions to the local community.

Also Mr Modell was the rabbi and his daughter Susan went to St Georges school.  Nice man.

Offline Llechwedd

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 12:06:03 pm »
Mrs Gubbay is from Persia now Iran not India.

Offline krasejc

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 01:35:25 pm »
Hey everyone! If you aren't sure about me my Uni email is cop812@bangor.ac.uk, and if you look on the Creative Studies and Media website you'll see that my supervisor, Dr. Nathan Abrams has me listed in his supervisions. :)

Compeltely understood and you can PM or email me if you would prefer!! I am looking for personal memories or anything like that. I ran across Oscar's blog about seven months ago and he had a great post about Robin Gubay's cafe in Llandudno, I then found this forum and thought I would finally make a post.

If you know anyone and think perhaps they would be interested in recounting their memories of growing up or living in Llandudno, or you yourself might be interested, then I am more than happy to talk to you privately also. :)

Offline krasejc

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 01:42:24 pm »
I think Yorkie has a point.  I can think of a least two Jewish families still in town.
One a historical note, I have read that during the last war a rabbi took his own life in a house near the Links.

Yes, I understand this- I'm not looking to "out" anyone as of course I know it can be a sensitive issue. I am looking for memories of times past really, things like does anyone remember Tikvah, or any of the other kosher boarding houses that were run by the women of the community from the earliest days up until the 1960s? And I know that there were several businesses run by Jewish families- of course Wartski and Blairman's but they both moved to London- and I know the Lazar family ran a business, as well as the Davies family. I believe the Gubays were either Persian or Iraqi in origin? I'm quite certain I've seen the census or immigration records for Robin's father or grandfather in the National Archive and in the online census information. I think they owned the Oriental Stores which is unfortunately, like many local family businesses in this day and age, no longer there. :(

I would love to know more about the Berry family, Emanuel Berry was the rabbi for many many years and I believe he either retired or passed away finally in the 1940s after the second World War. I am really looking for personal accounts to add a bit of life to the rather dry information I have- I know my colleague has actually spoken to Vicki Lazar this year, but I'm interested in local non-Jewish perspectives to as part of my thesis is looking at how people did or didn't construct a Welsh/local identity for themselves. It's obvious that many of the people you've already mentioned were very much part of the Llandudno community! :)

Thank you for your help and input, everyone.

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 02:15:05 pm »
The three Gubay brothers, Edward, Jack and Robin, have all sadly passed away.  I do recall Jack once telling me that his mother was originally from Baghdad but I think the three brothers were all born in Britain.  Jack served in the RAF during the war. I don't think they thought of themselves as anything but Llandudno folk - and why not.

Mrs Vicki (Velma) Lazar was originally from Glasgow, I seem to think she met her husband Joe when they were both in the RAF. She does come up to Llandudno occasionally but I have not seen her for some years. Vicki was a prominent councillor both on Llandudno Urban Council and then Aberconwy Borough Council.  She was Mayor of Aberconwy at one stage.

Another local Jewish family were the Salzedos.  Mr Salzedo had a jeweller's shop somewhere but I can't remember him myself.

Offline krasejc

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 02:23:58 pm »
Thank you Cambrian, that is very interesting! It is a real shame that many of the older generation have passed on. I am sure they would have been great to chat to- the real shame of it all on top of this, is that the congregation minutes and seatholder records have been lost, in a flood in the 1960s I believe, in the Glamorgan record office, where Welsh Jewish records were kept. A big disappointment really for an academic looking at the history of such a lively rural congregation. You often find that the minutes shed light on rather amusing squabbles between ministers and congregants (I'm sure if you're part of a neighbourhood church like the one I grew up in, this is a familiar possibility... ha ha ha)

Offline Helig

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 04:45:33 pm »
There are other Gubay/Gubbay families around and I apologise for getting the origins of the Llandudno line wrong.  I have read somewhere of one line that came from India.

My grandmother spoke of the mother of the Gubay boys running the Oriental Stores, she was said to have been in the shop at all hours and was very keen on the business.

There is a seat with a memorial plaque to Edward Gubay in Haulfre Gardens. He went to John Bright's school which was a Grammar School then.

The Levy family left Golder's Green in London in WW2. Their father was an accountant and the four daughters were in Llandudno throughout the war. I think two of them stayed on, Maisie married Sid Hardman, a Jewish man from Liverpool. They lived in The Oval and had two children. I met Maisie many times in the 1960s. She died c1970 as I recall. Sid ran a newsagents on the corner of Mostyn Street and Vaughn St.

There might be someone still alive who can give you more information. I will check to see.

There is also Albert Gubay who is the Kwik Save founder. I think he is related to the Llandudno family but he didn't live in the town.

Helig.

Offline krasejc

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Re: Historic Jewish community in Llandudno
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 04:51:27 pm »
There might be someone still alive who can give you more information. I will check to see.

Helig.

Thank you! This is all very interesting, I am aware that a lot of people evacuated to Llandudno in WWII; I'm currently writing about Llandudno in WWI and it's certainly true that the hotels etc were put to use billetting soldiers. I know the congregation at that time regularly hosted Jewish soldiers who were staying at Llandudno and they often had to borrow rooms from a particular chapel in Llandudno, I can't remember for the life of me which at the moment! There were quite good relations I think between most of the Christian churches and the Jewish community.