Author Topic: Great Orme tram  (Read 9515 times)

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Offline Llechwedd

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Great Orme tram
« on: March 05, 2012, 03:10:55 pm »
There's a photo in Conwy St David's hospice shop window of the tram at I guess the flat bit just beyond the half way station.  On it's left, Looking towards the summit, is a small track and on its right a cottage with smoke coming out of the chimney.  It's not a photo. I've ever seen before and at £10 too expensive .  However I was wondering anyone know when the tram way was built?

Offline SDQ

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Re: Great Orme tram
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 03:23:28 pm »
The tramway was opened in two stages:
The lower section on 31 July 1902 and
The upper on 8 July 1903.
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Offline Llechwedd

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Re: Great Orme tram
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 11:32:05 am »
Oh thanks for that SDQ I might go back and have another look.

Offline SDQ

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Re: Great Orme tram
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 12:20:21 pm »
It sounds like the cottage may be
Pyllau Farm by your description.
Valar Morghulis

Offline Gixer181

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The great orme tram
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 12:36:03 am »
can anyone elaborate on the death of my mothers cousin at black gate I think it was in the 30's 0r 40's her name was Margaret. My grand father used to drive the trams.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 05:00:49 pm by Ian »

Offline sam

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 02:39:55 am »
Found this:

http://www.greatorme.org.uk/tramhistory.html

"August 23rd 1932 – The Great Orme Tramways Company was shaken by its first major accident, an accident waiting to happen, Car No. 4 was descending the steep 1 in 3.7 stretch at Tabor Hill at the upper end of Old Road when the drawbar suddenly broke and the car became detached from the cable. The car left the rails on the reverse curves at that point and crashed into a wall resulting in the deaths of the driver and a 12 year old girl passenger. The driver was Ted Harris and the girl was Margaret Worthington whose father worked for the tramway at halfway station and continued to work there until he retired many years later. Ten passengers received serious injuries and others received cuts and bruises. Lt. Col. Anderson held an inquiry on August 29th and ordered the line to remain closed.

It appeared that the fracture in the drawbar had resulted from it having been made by Craven Bros Ltd of Manchester, specifically at Henry Sutcliffe’s request (he was looking for maintenance economies), from ‘Vibrac’, a particular steel alloy quite unsuited for this purpose and that this arose because the manufacturers had not been told of the use to which the drawbar was to be put. A similar drawbar fitted to Car No. 5 had fractured only two days earlier, happily without tragic consequences, but the significance of that occurrence had not been recognised. The drawbar that had failed on Car No. 4 was produced by the police. It was made to a uniform thickness of ¾ inch in order to give clearance when running in the 1¼ inch conduit slot. It was found to have worn down by ⅛ inch through rubbing on the sides of the slot since being fitted new just one week earlier on August 15th 1932.

The inspector’s report, published on February 2nd 1933, drew attention to the serious breaches of the statutory regulations (not least that the emergency brakes had been disconnected in 1906 and never re-connected) which had continued over many years, and for which the management were responsible. Claims lodged by injured passengers totalled £14,000 and in consequence of the report, the insurance company repudiated liability. "

Was your Grandfather the driver of the tram when the accident occured? If so what a terrible double tragedy for your family :(  The text states that Margarets father worked on the tram too or could that be the same person as your Grandfather? Incidently as the drivers name was Ted Harris - I'm wondering if he was any relation to my family.

Offline Gixer181

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 12:56:45 pm »
Was your Grandfather the driver of the tram when the accident occured? If so what a terrible double tragedy for your family   The text states that Margarets father worked on the tram too or could that be the same person as your Grandfather? Incidently as the drivers name was Ted Harris - I'm wondering if he was any relation to my family.

No it wasn't my grandfather, I just remember my mother saying about it as she named my sister middle name Margaret after the little girl who was killed. I ll ask my mum for more details as she used to live in number 1 Llwyn-onn gardens. But not sure now how she knew here as my mum wasnt born till March 1932!

Offline sam

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 08:46:00 am »
Another article here:

http://www.francisfrith.com/llandudno/memories/tram-crash-on-tabor-hill_61231/

"The driver had courageously scooped up the child and was thrown from the tram with her in his arms. Sadly they were thrown between the wall and the tramcar....
Normally, such an act of bravery would earn substantial recognition but - passengers were not supposed to be carried on the platforms while the tram was in motion."

So sad  :(  Unbelievable that the driver was not awarded recognition - surely the rules wouldn't apply in such an emergency. I hope both families received some compensation as the surviving passengers did - though I can't see a mention of it anywhere. Also unbelievable that the tramway had been operating for thirty years with incorrect parts and extremely negligent maintainance!  &shake& Maybe a plaque should be put up on the wall where it happened though I'm not sure the tramway would want to broadcast the fact that this tragedy happened due to their incompetence even if it was 80 years ago! Incidently - just noticed that the anniversary will be exactly 80 years this year on the 23rd of August ..... Hmmm I'm thinking that would be a very fitting occaision to have a memorial plaque erected......courtesy of the Great Orme Tramway of course...let's say it would be a small token of consolation..... ???

Offline DaveR

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 09:28:13 am »
Photo of the Crash:

Offline Gixer181

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 12:48:42 am »
The miss conception I had was it was at black gate but now thinking it was at the lower end of the main incline down from the half way station. Am seeing my mother tomorrow so will ask for more details.. Is there anything on the forum naming the old tram drivers. My nain met my taid at the rehabilitation home on church walks after he had been injured in the first war.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 08:39:05 am »
The crash was just by where that little well is set in the wall.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 08:40:54 am »
Ted Harris' grave is near the path to the church in St Tudno's grave yard.
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Offline sam

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2012, 04:59:16 pm »
The crash was just by where that little well is set in the wall.

http://www.francisfrith.com/llandudno/memories/tram-crash-on-tabor-hill_61231/


"....a stone drinking fountain which is let into the wall. Sometimes called Idwal's Folly, it was fixed into the wall to provide refreshment (at one old penny for a cupful of sparkling cool water) for people walking up the hill. The crystal clear spring had appeared overnight and the nearest property owner, Idwal, cashed in ... A few months later the spring mysteriously dried up (shortly after another local house owner discovered a badly leaking water tap in the cellar of his home!!), leaving Idwal with a useless memorial to his folly and greed."
Always wondered about that  - thought it was an ancient sacred spring or something ... haha  :)

Offline DaveR

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2012, 05:32:19 pm »
I saw that story and wondered why Idwal didn't just connect a supply to the well from his own house and carry on?

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: Deaths on the great orme tram
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2012, 05:39:49 pm »
That's what I would have done!  _))*
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