Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to 5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to 10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 208337 times)

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Dave

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #615 on: October 28, 2014, 03:17:54 PM »
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Apologies - after looking at their website I see compared to some of the other rubbish they fund the pier is quite worthy

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I have to agree.

viv

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #616 on: October 28, 2014, 09:07:43 PM »
My concerns have always been about sustainability. I the 70s when the pier was owned by Parker Leisure, there were well known groups appearing, slot machines, kiosks etc, hotels still in Colwyn Bay and day trips via train. But it still didn't pay! Not as many people went abroad either - so how can anyone expect to generate enough income to maintain the place to avoid its deterioration again? I am not convinced that the Colwyn Victoria Pier Trust will be capable of managing the project -they are a small group of well-meaning volunteers most of whom are retired, or have jobs that will make them unavailable to manage the site themselves,and very little cash in the pot. The Town Council are in the process of making sure that they will not have any liability that could end up as a continual burden on Council tax payers. The latest plan from the Heritage consultant, Edward Nash involves demolition but also preservation of the columns to support a new structure which could incorporate a focal point at that part of the promenade, some attractions and also historical images/references etc to provide a "legacy" of the history of the pier. I think that this is the most realistic option.

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #617 on: October 29, 2014, 09:21:39 AM »
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how can anyone expect to generate enough income to maintain the place to avoid its deterioration
I imagine you will be applying the same argument to the Porth Eirias building.  :laugh:

BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #618 on: October 29, 2014, 11:30:52 AM »
Indeed. I've never entirely bought the "sustainability" argument in its narrow "accounting" sense (as I see piers as heritage that wealthy, advanced societies have a responsibility to protect).

But I do understand why it's used. All I would ask is that people apply it consistently. Apply it to all "non-essential" council spending, and see how that works out for you.

born2run

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #619 on: October 29, 2014, 11:53:20 AM »
If the pier had an entrance fee. Let's say 1

Who here would pay to go on it.

I have to say I probably wouldn't be too quick to shell out 4 quid for me and my family to spend half an hour walking on a pier, and I don't think that many other people would.

So how can it sustain itself?

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #620 on: October 29, 2014, 12:22:06 PM »
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If the pier had an entrance fee. Let's say 1

Who here would pay to go on it.

I have to say I probably wouldn't be too quick to shell out 4 quid for me and my family to spend half an hour walking on a pier, and I don't think that many other people would.

So how can it sustain itself?
No successful Pier has an admission charge, the key is to have free admission, with a range of revenue generating facilities and attractions to provide the cash needed to fund ongoing maintenance.

SteveH

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #621 on: October 29, 2014, 12:54:38 PM »
I am coming around to the idea, that we are focusing on the pier, when we should be considering the bigger picture, there is a lot of talk about the resurgence of stay at home holidays, figures say the numbers are increasing, the government is spending millions on regenerating coastal resorts, as is private enterprise, look at Llandudno, two major redevelopment hotels, costing ten million each, they do not spend that amount on a whim, the smaller hotels, some of the best in the country, are upgrading and expanding.  etc  etc.
North Wales as a whole is a top destination, Llandudno has the accommodation, Conwy has the castle and Colwyn Bay .........
The cost of regeneration between Old Colwyn and Rhos point when finished is estimated at 100,000,000. after taking off the sea defence costs, you have....
 Parc Eirias...sport and culture...Porth Eirias....new beach and watersports centre..and a two mile improved prom.

Parc Eirias is a draw, but not a tourist attraction, that leaves Porth Eirias and the Prom. and I think we have to build on what is there, and the money already spent, without "an Attraction" you are left with "The Skip", which brings us back to the pier, I now believe, not only, that it has to be saved, but more needs to be done in that area to make Colwyn Bay/Rhos a serious tourist attraction.




DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #622 on: October 29, 2014, 02:44:42 PM »
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I am coming around to the idea, that we are focusing on the pier, when we should be considering the bigger picture, there is a lot of talk about the resurgence of stay at home holidays, figures say the numbers are increasing, the government is spending millions on regenerating coastal resorts, as is private enterprise, look at Llandudno, two major redevelopment hotels, costing ten million each, they do not spend that amount on a whim, the smaller hotels, some of the best in the country, are upgrading and expanding.  etc  etc.
North Wales as a whole is a top destination, Llandudno has the accommodation, Conwy has the castle and Colwyn Bay .........
The cost of regeneration between Old Colwyn and Rhos point when finished is estimated at 100,000,000. after taking off the sea defence costs, you have....
 Parc Eirias...sport and culture...Porth Eirias....new beach and watersports centre..and a two mile improved prom.

Parc Eirias is a draw, but not a tourist attraction, that leaves Porth Eirias and the Prom. and I think we have to build on what is there, and the money already spent, without "an Attraction" you are left with "The Skip", which brings us back to the pier, I now believe, not only, that it has to be saved, but more needs to be done in that area to make Colwyn Bay/Rhos a serious tourist attraction.
I agree, and where the Pier can play a major part in the regeneration is by providing:

1) Catering facilities, i.e cafe and bar with fantastic views over the shoreline
2) Amusements.
3) Hall for exhibitions/events etc.

I think that the Pier could be shortened to its original length (to reduce ongoing maintenance costs) and still be able to accommodate all of these facilities easily.

born2run

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #623 on: October 29, 2014, 03:00:01 PM »
That 40s Festival in the bay was quite brilliant

Imagine how much better it would be on the pier! Proper seaside entertainment  $walesflag$

SteveH

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #624 on: October 29, 2014, 03:24:31 PM »
Hi DaveR,    Agreed, but I still think it needs something else, sustainability has been brought up a lot, and the three
points you mentioned are what is expected from a pier, and as Fester has pointed out business is not that good even with the footfall of that pier,....so it needs something that you want to visit, I am sure there are some good ideas out there, something for all age groups.
The picture is an idea from the original pier redevelopment plan.

born2run

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #625 on: October 29, 2014, 04:18:06 PM »
Big Wheel - Rhyl used to have one of them - don't think it's there anymore so don't think it's much of a money spinner   D) pardon the pun

A kids play adventure thing - like Peabody's on the Llandudno pier - but with an indoor bit - like the cash cow Bonkerz would make a lot of money $good$

SteveH

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #626 on: November 01, 2014, 12:57:30 PM »
I had been looking at other seaside resort attractions, for ideas, found some big and small potential projects, when I noticed our poll, the number of votes to demolish it are growing, it made me think what will happen To C.B. without tourist input, businesses (shops restaurants jobs etc.) will not invest in the town.
The majority of successful resorts have a pier as the focal point of their "town",.... the "town" as a whole reaps the benefits,......C.B. has a pier and has had 100,000,000 spent around it, if we do not to take advantage of this opportunity, I feel the town will lose out, remember it's not just the pier.

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #627 on: November 01, 2014, 04:29:28 PM »
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I had been looking at other seaside resort attractions, for ideas, found some big and small potential projects, when I noticed our poll, the number of votes to demolish it are growing, it made me think what will happen To C.B. without tourist input, businesses (shops restaurants jobs etc.) will not invest in the town.
The majority of successful resorts have a pier as the focal point of their "town",.... the "town" as a whole reaps the benefits,......C.B. has a pier and has had 100,000,000 spent around it, if we do not to take advantage of this opportunity, I feel the town will lose out, remember it's not just the pier.
I agree. If they can attract HLF funding for the renovation, then what's not to like about keeping it? CCBC should not have been so hasty to buy it if they didn't want to keep it.

BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #628 on: November 01, 2014, 07:25:33 PM »
When you think of all the money they've pumped into "Bay Life Plus" (much of it not remotely "sustainable") - how they've tied themselves in knots trying to figure out how to "regenerate" Colwyn Bay. You'd think the one place they'd start is by exploring all the ways possible to restore the pier to some semblance of glory.

But many of them seem to have done the exact opposite, right from the start - lobbying and spinning for its demolition, regardless of public opinion, regardless of all the work that went into successfully getting a lottery fund grant.

And of course, the longer it drags on, the more people feel it should be demolished, rightly or wrongly. We forget that it's only just over a year ago when everything was looking rosy - a lottery fund grant had been awarded (594,900) with an indication of more to come, and some very positive words from the Heritage Lottery Fund on the potential of the pier to restore the town.

SteveH

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #629 on: November 01, 2014, 09:14:55 PM »
BMD,  ...Your  words..."the potential of the pier to restore the town."    Perfect wording this is not about saving the pier, it is about saving Colwyn Bay.....I have said before it is no longer a holiday resort, but the potential to draw short term visitors and day trippers is right there, to build on whats been done already.
Without tourism what else is going to bring money to the town?