Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 203939 times)

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DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #330 on: April 03, 2012, 09:23:02 AM »
It's a setback, certainly, but not a death blow. I'm sure that WG or WREN could be persuaded to come up with a few quid to get the ball rolling.

Personally, I think Shore Thing would be better served just harnessing the goodwill within the community and get stuck in to tidying the pier up and getting the shoreward end building reopened - it's tatty, certainly, but perfectly usable with a few repairs. Get the cafe going again (maybe in the old bar area to take advantage of the panoramic views), get the tackle shop reopened to bring in some rent, have a display of plans/ideas for the pier, an art gallery etc etc. All this could be done for a few thousand pounds and some volunteer labour.

Surely a display of effort and enthusiasm from the local community would make organisations such as the HLF far more likely to contribute in future?

Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #331 on: April 03, 2012, 09:34:22 AM »
A very logical interim plan Dave.

I for one would pop into to the Pier cafe or whatever they opened in the landward pavilion building, and spend a few bob as it would be something new and deserve supporting.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

John Oddy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #332 on: April 03, 2012, 10:12:23 AM »
What I said before and what I still stand by.....

Thursday, 29 March 2012
NOT SO SURE THING

Colwyn Bay Pier (Victoria Pier) falling (pardon the pun) into the hands of CCBC may not be the good news we all think it is. Shore Thing, the “front-men” for the Council have come up with some ideas that look good on paper but, in reality, may not work.

Call me a sceptic but unless the Pier hits the ground running as a commercial venture then it is doomed to failure and, if that happens, it will be the local tax payer who is burdened with the cost of it and that could dwindle on for many years.

I remain convinced that the only viable way for the Pier to succeed is in the hands of a private company, if that company is a gaming company and they want to open a casino then so be it, let them. If Shore Thing remain in control and only partially refit the pier, as and when funding is available then we are back to the way that Steve Hunt was trying to do it, building it up when he could afford it.

I was there when the original “Shore Thing” was set up, their main criteria was that no Councillors were to be involved with its workings yet I know of a couple who are skirting around it and, in my opinion, pulling the strings.....the Council remain in control but at arms length so, with running costs and maintenance estimated at over £50,000 a year who do you think will end up paying for it?

Please God....let me be wrong!

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #333 on: April 03, 2012, 10:23:45 AM »
The fact is, John, it is in the hands of CCBC and no HLF money is forthcoming. So what's the route forward?

Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #334 on: April 03, 2012, 10:29:45 AM »
But according to Steve Hunt, CCBC are not yet the confirmed legal owners of the Pier.

The truth is most elusive.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

John Oddy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #335 on: April 03, 2012, 11:20:30 AM »
Dave,
As you know I battled for the restoration of the pier but not at a cost to the general public I wanted to allow NPower to build an underwater wall from Rhos Point to Llanddulas Point with turbines that work on the rise and fall of the tide, this wall would form a harbour off our coast, protection towards sea erosion of our beached and allow a private company to extend the pier.
Once the pier was extended a pontoon marina could be put at the end of it, making it the only non-tidal marina in North Wales, on the extended pier the company that bought it could build a casino,  restaurant, shops with housing above and, down the side of the pier, jet-ski housing and launch pads.
The wall would provide classic conditions for jet ski competitions, a safe marina for boats, the pier would provide the shops and entertainment that would suit the boating fraternity and the town, its hotels and shops would also benefit.

Dave

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #336 on: April 03, 2012, 12:59:25 PM »
If I won £10m on the lottery today, would I or anyone else think it's a good idea investing it all in the pier ?
No. So why expect the lottery to ? Saving our heritage may well be seen as a worthy cause but when it's saved who and how many actually enjoy it ?

The Pier in Llandudno is starting to look in need of some TLC and I think getting boats sailing from the end again would be a far better use of probably a lot less money.

As for Jet Skis, they should be banned not encouraged. The few that use Colwyn Bay for a base make as much noise as the Expressway creates and can be heard from as far as Upper Colwyn Bay.

Just my opinion of course !



DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #337 on: April 04, 2012, 01:32:14 PM »
I don't understand the fuss over CCBC buying the Pier.

Fact is, regardless of the HLF grant application, if they hadn't bought it, then it would have become steadily more derelict until...CCBC were forced to step in and demolish it at taxpayers expense. So the taxpayer foots the bill either way.

I've always regarded the idea of an HLF 'magic bullet' to solve all the financial problems in one fell swoop as being 50/50 at best. I recall the public meeting held a couple of years ago and the enormous amount of goodwill towards the pier that was evident. CBI Insurance offered a £10,000 donation at that meeting, I believe. Time for Shore Thing to hold a meeting, roll up their sleeves, and start to get the work done.

poppy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #338 on: April 04, 2012, 03:37:40 PM »
If the boat stuck on the rocks in Llandulas makes its way down the coast and crashes into the pier, causing the pier to fall into the sea, could the council claim off the boat owners insurance?  :twoface:

SCMP

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #339 on: April 04, 2012, 06:20:12 PM »
From what i found out there are a few things off here...



Colwyn Bay Pier (Victoria Pier) falling (pardon the pun) into the hands of CCBC may not be the good news we all think it is. Shore Thing, the “front-men” for the Council have come up with some ideas that look good on paper but, in reality, may not work.
Call me a sceptic but unless the Pier hits the ground running as a commercial venture then it is doomed to failure and, if that happens, it will be the local tax payer who is burdened with the cost of it and that could dwindle on for many years.


If the council have to wait another year for Shore Ting to get funding all the council would have to do would be to keep it up to the elf n safety needs which i am sure they could claw back that tax payers money by opening something up at the front part of the pier? Then they would have have done more for the pier for not that much money in the long run then anybody else has done in the past 3 years!!! Shouldn't the local council support the redevelopment of a tourist attraction for a social enterprise rather than some of the stupid things they waste our money on?


I remain convinced that the only viable way for the Pier to succeed is in the hands of a private company, if that company is a gaming company and they want to open a casino then so be it, let them. If Shore Thing remain in control and only partially refit the pier, as and when funding is available then we are back to the way that Steve Hunt was trying to do it, building it up when he could afford it.


Unfortunately many funding bodies would not be available if it was in the hands of a private business and Shore Thing would not be able to go after grants or funding on their behalf. It took so long to apply to the HLF because of the ownership issue. If they didn't own it then they couldn't apply for funding.

I was there when the original “Shore Thing” was set up, their main criteria was that no Councillors were to be involved with its workings yet I know of a couple who are skirting around it and, in my opinion, pulling the strings.....the Council remain in control but at arms length so, with running costs and maintenance estimated at over £50,000 a year who do you think will end up paying for it?

That seems strange. Shore Thing was only made at the beginning of last year independently?
The community group was formed after the 1st public meeting and before the 2nd public meeting and vowed there would be no councillor in there group so had no voting rights as this was how the 'friends of the pier' fell apart... 

They went to the 2nd meeting in St Pauls after registering as a community group and all stood up as one community group when asked by (MP) Jones is anybody wanted to join the steering group. After that meeting there was no way for the steering group to meet together as 'data protection' stopped each member from finding out who the other members were to gather together. The elections came about and off he went to Cardiff.

The pier pressure group carried along on their own until after a good six months or so the group got hold of david jones and got a meeting to which he invited the few people that had stood up along side the group in St Pauls. They invited these people to join their community group as it was obvious they were not going to get any help. Hence at the beginning of 2011 Shore Thing was set up with some of the community group members with Wales CoOpCentre when they (Victoria Pier Pressure Group) learned that they will be better off getting grants and funding as a social enterprise.


Please God....let me be wrong!

I hope so as well to be honest!

The fact is that if the pier got the the completely unsafe shape of being beyond repair and if RPG still had the pier the council would eventually have to pay £1.2 million to knock it down. If crown estates still had the pier the council would still have to pay to knock it down and if Steve Hunt got it back he couldn't raise enough money or be able to bid for funding he wouldn't be able to afford to knock it down so..... yup tax payers would still have to pay to knock it down.

I really do think that as crown estates have signed over the pier by being bought by the Welsh assembly government and put in the care of the council then i am sure spending £50k or whatever to ensure the front is safe is a viable option and a chance to raise funds with Shore Thing and the public, raise awareness and explain to everybody that... hey funding is out there and we just have to fight for it, we all pay into European pots and lottery tickets so hell fire we want some of it back for the community! As Fester said if the front was open that's one cup of decent coffee for a quid... north Wales get's 8million tourists a year.... 49,999 cups to go and the £50k takes care of its self! (i'm an optimist lol)

The fact the Heritage Lottery Fund have said to the papers it wants to meet up with the council after the elections has to be a good sign as if the proposal was pants then they wouldn't bother! They open new funding pots each year and Shore Thing just managed to jump on the back of last years. This years pot will start at some point soon i would think?

Yet again it is back to waiting till after the elections (oh and Steve Hunts last court appeal coincidentally) before anything can be done.

Hmmm i feel like i'm ranting but honestly i am not :)

SCMP


DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #340 on: April 06, 2012, 04:16:24 PM »
I noticed today that CCBC have covered up the 'PIER OPEN EVERY DAY' and 'CAFE & BAR OPEN' signs on the side of the pier. You'd have thought that boarding up the broken windows would have been a more important job, but apparently not....

John Oddy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #341 on: April 06, 2012, 05:43:05 PM »
The murky waters (and not those under the pier) are starting to wash-up some of the dirty dealings that have gone on.

Michael

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #342 on: April 06, 2012, 08:13:14 PM »
  Oh dear, Ive got to go against my friend DaveR yet again. Its not personal, honest. I wrote to this forum, or maybe the previous forum, saying there were five or six signs saying "Open" and couldnt someone, anyone, paint them out.
   I absolutely HATE seeing Open on a shop doorway and then finding it locked. And Ive had to put up with looking at open on the pier every day for the last two years.  Mike   P.S. Tomorrow Ill be watching out for the broken windows.

dwsi

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #343 on: April 06, 2012, 08:19:05 PM »
Colwyn Bay pier – a long and sad tale | David Jones, MP You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #344 on: April 06, 2012, 08:33:36 PM »
I don't agree with Jones' plan, to be honest. Why should CCBC pay a 'commercial rent' to Steve Hunt for a pile of rusty metal that is effectively worth nothing? At the end of the day, the Pier fell into final disrepair on Hunt's watch - he spent his time fiddling about with stained glass ceilings and building xmas trees out of scaffolding when the structure of the pier itself was rusting away.

My views is...it may fall to the taxpayer to save the pier, but it does certainly not fall to the taxpayer to save Hunt's finances. He deserves not one penny.