Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 386642 times)

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Offline Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #810 on: February 07, 2017, 06:57:10 pm »
Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers. 
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

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Offline spotty dog

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #811 on: February 07, 2017, 07:10:43 pm »
Its a structural engineer you require somebody like Bill Halls, but I think he has retired now, but you are tilting at windmills here


Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #812 on: February 07, 2017, 08:31:04 pm »
Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers.

I don't know any, Ian, I'm sorry (I used to be an architect, but not for some time). I do recall that both of the reports on the condition of the pier (Datrys, 2010, and the 2013 CCBC-published one) stated that the main structural elements (eg "cast-iron piles and columns") were sound, with potential problems lying elsewhere (eg "bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck" needed repair). The 2013 report says "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected".

I hope the recent collapse is looked into closely, without anyone ruling anything (including sabotage) out in advance. It's easy for people to mock the whole suggestion as "conspiracy theory", but if you've read Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs column, you'll know that weirder, more outrageous and scandalous things have been known to occur. Not that anyone should make accusations without evidence, of course. No doubt there's a relatively innocent explanation - but CCBC's actions and statements regarding the pier have always deeply puzzled me.




Offline Hugo

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #813 on: February 07, 2017, 10:29:23 pm »
Wonder if BMD is around. He's an architect, so must know of some local metallurgical engineers.

I don't know any, Ian, I'm sorry (I used to be an architect, but not for some time). I do recall that both of the reports on the condition of the pier (Datrys, 2010, and the 2013 CCBC-published one) stated that the main structural elements (eg "cast-iron piles and columns") were sound, with potential problems lying elsewhere (eg "bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck" needed repair). The 2013 report says "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected".

I hope the recent collapse is looked into closely, without anyone ruling anything (including sabotage) out in advance. It's easy for people to mock the whole suggestion as "conspiracy theory", but if you've read Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs column, you'll know that weirder, more outrageous and scandalous things have been known to occur. Not that anyone should make accusations without evidence, of course. No doubt there's a relatively innocent explanation - but CCBC's actions and statements regarding the pier have always deeply puzzled me.

That's very  interesting BMD and the third stanchion that was photographed today is still there, stump and all.    Would an engineer or some other expert be able to say whether it was a fracture or cut?

Offline born2run

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #814 on: February 08, 2017, 09:53:50 am »
I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.
They would have booked their sabatouer to come in and destroy the pier for the Friday, but he would have had some sick days to use and cancelled last minute, so they would have had to rearrange the job for sometime in the week but would have forgot to send the full details to the replacement sabatouer who in turn would have cut down the wrong pier and Llandudno pier would now be in the sea instead  $good$

Offline Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #815 on: February 08, 2017, 10:20:23 am »
 _))* _))* _))*
 
I like that thought :-) 

While I agree it's unlikely, odder things do happen with individuals; who'd have thought a councillor would face jail after shining lights into pilots' eyes as they were trying to land? I wouldn't be in the least surprised to discover that someone had perhaps visited the pier supports with a small bottle of sulphuric acid and, over the course of several weeks, sprayed them along the potentially weakest line.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #816 on: February 08, 2017, 11:14:47 am »
I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.

I know what you mean, but look at the whole Porth Eirias farce - or series of farces. Firstly, apparently nobody noticed or cared (until it was too late, ie past planning permission stage) that the council had the design changed from the original glass-clad publicly-approved competition-winning entry to something resembling a giant skip - later shortlisted by independent experts for the Carbuncle Cup. How was that allowed to happen?

Incompetence mixed with determination, especially when pursuing something unpopular with (or hidden from) the public, often seems to end up bulldozing things along to some planned target, usually in a destructive or ugly or dubious way. I'm talking generally of course - it's not just CCBC. With the Skip, the desired (amended, face-saving) target was finally reached - a successful celebrity-chef restaurant in place. But at huge public cost, delayed for years, and with a leaky, ugly building that still looks like building site.

Extrapolate the same mixture of incompetence and determination-against-public-wishes (not to mention lack of transparency) to the destiny of the pier, and let's see what we end up with, and by what dubious route.

Offline Hugo

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #817 on: February 08, 2017, 12:12:18 pm »
I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

It's like Chinese whispers and the message gets distorted along the way, now the alleged action was in broad daylight whereas the original posting mentioned the evening.
There are 3 stanchion stumps remaining, of which one also has the upper part of the stanchion remaining so it won't take a rocket scientist to say whether the post has been tampered with or not.   That would settle the fiasco once and for all.
As I've said there are no winners in this matter and the only one that could benefit from the collapse of the pier is the demolition firm, if it comes to the demolition stage.

Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #818 on: February 08, 2017, 12:51:48 pm »
I think you're all missing the very obvious fact that if someone farts in this town it's all over social media and the internet. I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have done some mechanical engineering in broad daylight in full view of half of Colwyn Bay and nobody, not even one person noticed.

Also yoy're forgetting the council couldn't organise a  Z** in a brewery never mind something of this magnitude.
They would have booked their sabatouer to come in and destroy the pier for the Friday, but he would have had some sick days to use and cancelled last minute, so they would have had to rearrange the job for sometime in the week but would have forgot to send the full details to the replacement sabatouer who in turn would have cut down the wrong pier and Llandudno pier would now be in the sea instead  $good$

Please give B2R the prize for best post of 2017, thus far.   Hilarious.
Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #819 on: February 08, 2017, 02:47:33 pm »
Just to put an end to any more speculation,  the Save our Pier supporters had a good meeting with the council yesterday and the Council showed some pictures from their engineers and there doesn't seem to be any tampering as the stanchions are hollow and have broken off at the sleeve towards the bottom.
The stanchions on the beach are intact.

I was not advised of what is going to happen to the pier in the future, other than that they are going to make it safe next week

Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #820 on: February 08, 2017, 03:03:23 pm »
There seems to be quite a lot of media coverage - eg on ITV, BBC, Daily Mirror websites.

I noticed this comment:

Chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust Mark Roberts said: "I noticed two to three weeks ago certain strengthening elements on the pier had disappeared and considering the council's planned demolition application I find this an unsavoury coincidence." http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx

And Clwyd West MP, David Jones, blames CCBC and makes the point that the pier is a listed building and that CCBC had a responsibility to "ensure it was preserved in a sufficiently safe condition". http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/colwyn-bay-pier-collapses-sea-9738568


Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #821 on: February 08, 2017, 07:29:56 pm »

Chairman of the Colwyn Bay Victoria Pier Trust Mark Roberts said: "I noticed two to three weeks ago certain strengthening elements on the pier had disappeared and considering the council's planned demolition application I find this an unsavoury coincidence." http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/172044/council-respond-to-sabotage-claims-of-collapsed-colwyn-bay-pier.aspx[/url

?!?!?  Therefore there are serious questions still to be answered
Fester...
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Offline SteveH

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #822 on: February 10, 2017, 05:23:33 pm »
Plan to 'dismantle' Colwyn Bay pier before a store and restore project
Victoria Pier Trust and Conwy council reach agreement over the way forward for the Listed structure.
Now council officers and the Victoria Pier Trust have identified a collaborative way of working on the future of the Victoria Pier at a meeting this week.

Both organisations believe that the best way of securing a future for the pier, is to carefully dismantle it before any more damage is done to this Grade II Listed building by storms and tides.
Council officers agreed to submit a Listed Building Consent application to dismantle the pier and then store the dismantled listed components for the Trust to restore in the future.

At the meeting, members of the Trust shared their draft feasibility plan for the future of the pier.
This aims to contribute to the regeneration of Colwyn Bay by restoring the pier to provide vibrant food, drink and events spaces.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plan-dismantle-colwyn-bay-pier-12588886

Out of sight springs to mind, also would the restoration be eligable for lottery grant funding?

Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #823 on: February 10, 2017, 05:30:49 pm »
Dismantle a rusting, rotting pier....and store it for 'the future'???
What madness is this?
Once it's gone, it's GONE!!
Fester...
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Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #824 on: February 10, 2017, 07:00:35 pm »
Bizarre. What happened to the council's whole objection that restoration would be too costly? (In spite of them spending lavishly on other nearby projects).

This proposal (if I understand it) would ADD the cost of dismantling/cataloguing/storage, etc, to the cost of restoration/rebuilding -- assuming, that is, that the council is serious about the restoration/rebuilding part.

But then logic has never struck me as being a strong point of CCBC's arguments regarding the pier.