Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 386404 times)

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Offline John Oddy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #345 on: April 06, 2012, 09:25:08 pm »
Dave,
Basically because it may not have been the most moral option but, as far as the tax payer is concerned it would have been the cheapest.
People have allowed personalities to cloud their judgements, I've just blogged about it, but because someone "got the hump" we are all now going to have to pay for it!

Offline dwsi

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #346 on: April 06, 2012, 09:27:27 pm »
Oscars latest posting about the pier saga :-

Thoughts of Oscar: Who Was It? http://bit.ly/I2VRQQ


Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #347 on: April 07, 2012, 05:12:13 pm »
Dave,
Basically because it may not have been the most moral option but, as far as the tax payer is concerned it would have been the cheapest.
People have allowed personalities to cloud their judgements, I've just blogged about it, but because someone "got the hump" we are all now going to have to pay for it!
We were always going to have to pay for it, John! You know as well as I do that Hunt carried out no repairs to the substructure of the pier while he owned it. I have the photos, showing how poor a condition it was in before it closed. It was only a matter of time before it was closed on safety grounds and the burden fell onto the taxpayer to sort the mess out.

Offline John Oddy

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #348 on: April 07, 2012, 05:49:56 pm »
Dave,
You and I have this convo before, I totally agree with you that Steve Hunt was/is not the best person to own the pier because of his financial situation BUT...CCBC were in a position where they could have leased the pier from him at a peppercorn rent, they could have then sub-leased it to Shore Thing. It would have been up to them to source funding, with CCBC’s help, the bid for lottery funding was flawed and I pointed this out at the time, but the real question here is; why did CCBC buy the pier before they knew the result of the bid?
What they have done is saddle us, the tax payer, with an, as yet, unknown bill. The pier has to be made safe and maintained, the cost of which will be in the 10’s of thousands, by taking responsibility for it they have committed us to its upkeep and all because the leader of the council refused to discuss the matter and walked out of the meeting.
There is, of course, opportunity to re-submit the bid but that will take time, until then the safety and upkeep of the pier is at our cost, again I say, needlessly. Schedule 12a (public and press exempt) was used throughout the meetings held about the pier so we will never know the full truth or if, even, the full council were ever made aware of the three different lease options that were put on the table at the David Jones meeting.
The entire handling of this has been scandalous from day one and, as far as I can see, there are questions that need to be answered and those answers need to come from the very top of the CCBC tree.   

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #349 on: April 07, 2012, 06:25:17 pm »
I agree with 99% of what you say. CCBC's handling of the whole business has been appalling. I just don't believe that Hunt would have granted a lease to anyone at a peppercorn rent - he said on Twitter he wanted a commercial rent:

@victoriapier @cllrjason how much for ? Peppercorn rent seeing the condition it's in ???
@Thoughtsofoscar @cllrjason no, commercial rent determined by estate agent / district valuer / what council let it's own buildings out for

I have to say i also find his casual racism rather distasteful:

"Most of all it needs a council that doesn't have a personal/political vendetta against successive English owners."

 &shake&

Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #350 on: April 08, 2012, 11:10:41 pm »

I have to say i also find his casual racism rather distasteful:

"Most of all it needs a council that doesn't have a personal/political vendetta against successive English owners."

 &shake&

Ha ha Dave... I assume that you object to his 'casual' racism against the English,  and you would prefer it to be more 'Formal'?

 _))* _))*   :laugh: :laugh:

Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #351 on: April 09, 2012, 08:50:50 am »
And - to be technical - I suspect it's really casual Nationalism.  Those born in England or Wales are actually the same species, Dave….

 :twoface: :twoface: :twoface:
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #352 on: April 09, 2012, 09:08:41 am »
Not a phrase I've ever heard anyone use, Ian.  :P

Offline Yorkie

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #353 on: April 09, 2012, 01:21:43 pm »
And - to be technical - I suspect it's really casual Nationalism.  Those born in England or Wales are actually the same species, Dave….

 :twoface: :twoface: :twoface:

Some of us aren't!      ^^^^
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Offline SCMP

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #354 on: April 10, 2012, 03:24:51 pm »
I believe that Steve Hunts proposals included owning the pier and leasing it via the council to Shorething which they would have to pay rent to him at a smaller rate but after 3 years it would rise to £100k a year so they would have to raise that rent before even being able to spend any money on the estimated £50k a year upkeep, pay wages, marketing etc... To me that is NOT a peppercorn rent!!!

Unfortunately Steve Hunt wont make these proposals public on his website and he when he approached the council for help they wanted a business plan from him which he has never made public. I'm just wondering why his proposals are not public , If he showed his proposals publicly maybe the local people would be behind them? Unless they are as preposterous as rumours say?

As i have said before because of the lack or proper renovation Steve Hunt did on the pier that it would eventually fall on the council / tax payers to pay for fixing it up or knocking it down. He did do work on the pier but not enough and in my own opinion not in the right places which he would have never been able to renovate it because of lack of funds.

I'm not knocking the man for trying years ago when nobody else wanted but his behaviour since realising he had bitten off more that he can chew and them loosing the pier has been down right horrid at times. I know the pier pressure group don't say much in the paper but i have been told some people fear him from some of the phone calls and messages they have got and at least they seem to have the behaviour not to throw it in the news paper and feed the fire.

When the council 'got' the pier i went down to have a look at what was going on with the new lock being put on and the cherry picker thing they were painting the side of it. The workers (i think they may have been employed by the council or hired freelance people' got a mouth full of abuse and then called the police on them.

I certainly don't want my hard earned money going to line his pockets, the council do enough damage with my council tax :)
 

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #355 on: April 10, 2012, 06:00:27 pm »
Very interesting. This just illustrates once again to me how he is not a fit person to be either involved with the pier in any way in the future or to benefit financially from his appalling behaviour.

Offline dwsi

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #356 on: April 11, 2012, 11:01:21 pm »
Secrecy over Colwyn Bay pier must be lifted says MP - Daily Post North Wales http://bit.ly/HIevjV

Offline dwsi

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #357 on: April 23, 2012, 06:23:42 pm »
Colwyn Bay Pier ownership still in question - North Wales News - News - Daily Post North Wales http://bit.ly/IjGZ2T

David Jones, MP | A dreadful mess http://bit.ly/IjH7Q7

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #358 on: April 24, 2012, 10:34:57 am »
Another £12,000 of Steve Hunt's money down the drain. I hope no taxpayers money was wasted on this.

Steve Hunt’s claim against Conwy County Council auditors KPMG is rejected by court

A JUDGE yesterday rejected an attempt by businessman Steve Hunt to claim Conwy County Council’s auditors acted unlawfully.

The former Colwyn Bay Pier owner had claimed that Ian Denzil Pennington, a director for Conwy County Council’s auditors KPMG, had acted unlawfully in allowing council tax payers’ money to be spent repairing the pier in 2009-10. Mr Hunt claimed that that was the responsibility of then trustees in bankruptcy - administrators Royce Peeling Green.

But his honour Judge Milwyn Jarman QC agreed with KPMG's barrister Hugh Derbyshire at Mold County Court to “strike out” the claim.

The judge said although Mr Hunt had attended two meetings with KPMG it was his friend Gary Willetts – not Mr Hunt – who had received correspondence from KPMG. Neither had Mr Hunt been on Conwy's electoral register, as required, at the given time. The judge said: “I am satisfied that Mr Pennington has shown that the statement of case shows no reasonable grounds for a case against him.”

KPMG’s barrister Mr Derbyshire initially asked for costs of £19,543.04 from Mr Hunt. However, after negotiations between both sides this figure was reduced to £12,000.

After the case, Mr Hunt said the fact the court had struck out his claim was “a shame”. But he would be asking questions about Conwy County Council spending in other financial years.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/04/24/steve-hunt-s-claim-against-conwy-county-council-auditors-kpmg-is-rejected-by-court-55578-30824319/

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #359 on: May 24, 2012, 09:56:00 am »
THE DISPUTED ownership of an historic pier is set to be sorted out at a court case in July.

A judge at Cardiff County Court will decide who owns Colwyn Bay’s Grade II listed Victoria Pier on Friday, July 20.

Businessman and one-time owner Steve Hunt believes he owns it after a three-year bankruptcy period expired in July 2011.

But it latterly fell into the hands of the Crown Estate. Conwy County Borough Council bought it from them for £36,000 with a Welsh Government grant. Days later, the Heritage Lottery Fund board rejected Conwy’s £4.9m grant bid to restore it.


But Mr Hunt disputes the validity of the “purchase” and took his fight to Mold County Court on April 23. It was adjourned to be listed again.

Conwy’s chief executive Iwan Davies said: “The hearing date is listed for July 20 in Cardiff. We’re keen for the hearing to take place on that date and not to be delayed again, so that we can move on.

“Conwy County Borough Council and Shore Thing (a community enterprise which would help run the pier) representatives recently had a positive meeting with the Heritage Lottery Fund regarding the grant application and we’re looking to re-submit later in the year.”

The Mayor of Colwyn Bay Cllr Viv Perry said: “If it has any hope for the future it has to go the way it has been planned: for Shore Thing to put in a bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund with the assistance of Conwy CB Council. It’s either that or demolish it. It’s an absolute eyesore. The prom is going to look nice with the new waterfront building and the pier is bringing down the whole prom.”

Even demolition would cost £1m. But Cllr Perry said: “It’s not fair on the total taxpayers of Conwy County to have to pay £1m. I’m sure they would like to see improvements in their areas.”

She hopes any HLF grant would pay for the pier to be restored so it can be used by walkers and anglers, with no buildings on it. Hmmm, but who would pay for ongoing maintenance if there are no businesses generating money on the Pier?

Graham Roberts, of Colwyn Bay Civic Society, said: “My personal view is that the ownership is irrelevant. Whoever owns it is going to have to spend too much money that cannot be justified. The world has moved on. Piers are from a time that has gone.”  :laugh: Is this guy for real? Take a look around the UK, most Piers are thriving.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/05/24/date-set-for-colwyn-bay-s-victoria-pier-ownership-battle-55578-31034694/