Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 386610 times)

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Offline JasonW

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #120 on: April 09, 2011, 08:20:28 pm »
There was an attempt at the meeting on Thursday to open the discusssion to the public. I arrived late (not on the committee so could not vote) and heard the back end of this discussions. Sometime I recognise that commerically sensitive information has  to be restricted, because this will affect any potential negotiations. But there is so much going on that at a good part of the the discussion I believe should be made public.

There is somm good work going on to find a solution and what was eveident on Thursday is that the officers are trying down the detail and working on the solutions on a daily basis.

Applying for grants are never as striaght forward as they first seem. Estimates are that a refurbishment of the pier could be at least £4.5m, this information has been released before. But the conditions of such sums of money mean that some grantors will not give this money to anyone, track record is an importnat element of discussions.

It is frustrating not being able to disclose information, but if I did the chances are I would be reported to the Ombudsman and loose my position as a Councillor. Hence we can not take the risks, but I understand the comments on the thread.

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #121 on: April 09, 2011, 08:44:08 pm »
Surely the Ombudsman has to first of all establish whether there has been a breach of the Code of Conduct? 

If it is in the Public Interest for the information to be disclosed then no breach can be committed.  The question is, whether the information can REASONABLY be considered to be of interest to the general public, or is it more reasonable for other (commercial) interests to be protected.

Only the person or people holding the information can decide on what to do. ?{}?


Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2011, 09:51:05 pm »
COLWYN Bay’s derelict Victoria Pier could finally be in the hands of the local authority following a vote this week.

At a meeting behind closed doors at Bodlondeb on Tuesday, councillors voted to explore the pier’s acquisition and to attempt to extend the timeframe to do so.

Once in council control, the pier will be put into the hands of the Pier Pressure Group charity, and become eligible for millions of pounds of funding.

Penny Davies is from the Pier Pressure Group and was excited about the prospect of the structure being bought from creditors Royce Peeling Green (RPG).

“We are looking forward to having a clear directive,” she said.

“Everybody is working behind the scenes to be ready for take-off and waiting to see what happens between RPG and the council.”

The three-year time period since a bankruptcy notice was issued expires in July.

Under the Insolvency Act the pier could revert back from RPG to former owner Steve Hunt.

However, under the same Act, a time limit can be extended if there is a sale being agreed.

It is believed the pier would cost Conwy County Council £35,000.

It would cost around £1.2 million to demolish the structure, or at least £5.5 million to make it safe and refurbish it.

Council cabinet members have been sworn to secrecy about discussing the subject which has remained exempt from the ears of the press and public.

One anonymous councillor claimed yesterday there was a row at the meeting about spending £35,000 to buy the pier, as it is a negative asset.

The councillor cited a council-funded safety report which already warns that the pier is literally falling into the sea.

The councillor claims the authority will save money by acting quickly to obtain the pier, rather than waiting until the council is obliged to step in regardless and demolish it, if it was left any longer without maintenance.

“If we go down the route of taking support from the Assembly, and taking the grant funding from the Lottery and the European money available, there is a chance it will cost the council nothing at all,” said the unnamed councillor.

“If the council doesn’t do that, it may have to pay for the work by default and end up footing the bill to demolish it and the bill will then fall on the tax payer.

“There are all sorts of things, such as road crossings, which the council could spend £35,000 on, but you have to take the risk otherwise it could end up costing the tax payer £1.5 million to demolish it, as well as the cost of de-listing the pier from Cadw in the high court.”

RPG’s director Rod Wythenshaw said there had been interest in the pier and confirmed it was possible to extend the timeframe past July if there was a sale agreed.

“As far as that case is concerned we are waiting to take our own advice,” he said.

“But I would have hoped things will have happened one way or another within that timeframe.

“Under the Insolvency Act the property must be dealt with within three years of bankruptcy.

“If nothing happens by the middle of July it does revert back.

“However, if there are any offers for the sale we can take possession proceedings which would increase the time limit.

“There has been an expression of interest but I’m not saying any more.”

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/04/14/council-set-to-take-control-of-colwyn-bay-pier-55243-28515697/

Offline JasonW

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2011, 12:18:52 am »
Minutes of Tuesday's Cabinet meeting have been issued:
Personnaly I'm happy with the resolutions. In the previous meetings ,which I had referred to in previous posts, I had been asking for more information and a better understanding of the Business Plan from the proposed community interest company. It is true to say that some local members want us to take the decision straight away and take the risk. But we have to be prudent and understand more before proceeding with any formal course of action.

Minutes:

The Cabinet Member for Communities presented a report in relation to the current position of Colwyn Bay Pier and the options available to the Council.

Members were also presented with the recommendations from the Communities Overview and Scrutiny Committee held on 7 April 2011, who had recommended that Option 3 be approved.

Mr. Jay Martin, a voluntary director of ‘Shore Thing’, the newly established trading company of the Colwyn Bay Pier Pressure Group was invited to give a presentation on his proposals for acquiring the Pier and the plans for the regeneration of the building.

Members considered the options available, and in particular discussed Option 3 and the risks relating to this proposal in detail.

Members agreed that further information was required before a decision could be made and requested that a further report be presented to the next meeting of Cabinet.

It was also suggested that Council could be asked for their views prior to Cabinet making a decision; Members agreed that this option could be explored once a further report had been produced.


RESOLVED-

(a)   That Officers explore further the possibility of Conwy County Borough Council facilitating the acquisition of Colwyn Bay Pier by a 3rd Party.

 (b)  That Officers explore all options to extend the current time constraints, in order that the Council can make a considered decision in light of a Business Plan that will be available in due course.

(c)   That a further report be presented to the next meeting of Cabinet detailing the issues above.


(Note:  Mr Martin was in attendance for this item, but left the meeting after his presentation).



Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2011, 08:17:03 am »
Whilst I understand the need for caution, the real concern for me would be that, if CCBC doesnt take action now, then it could be lumbered with the £1.2m+ cost of demolition in a couple of years anyway.

Offline Michael

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2011, 08:49:23 pm »
Just to lighten the subject a bit, yesterday tea time'ish I drove past the pier entrance and there were three lads with guitars apparently playing like buskers with no one else around unless they were stood under the railway bridge (I was driving Rhos to O.C. direction so I was looking left).  No sign of any cameras or Youtube tackle.

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #126 on: May 24, 2011, 10:49:58 am »
'Key decision' needed over Colwyn Bay's Victoria pier

The future of a Grade II-listed Victorian pier which has been closed for nearly three years could become clearer later.

A private meeting of Conwy council will discuss Colwyn Bay pier, as its condition continues to deteriorate.

The council does not own the pier, but a senior officer says some key decisions need to be made urgently.

It was closed in 2008 when its owner was made bankrupt in a dispute with the council over business rates.

Council acting chief executive Ken Finch said the situation was "at the point at which some key decisions need to be made".

On Tuesday, the council's cabinet committee will discuss the future of the pier:

http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=171&MId=2671&Ver=4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13505753

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #127 on: May 24, 2011, 02:24:21 pm »
Steve Hunt's latest email:

"A quick update on the latest news from Victoria Pier, Colwyn Bay...
 
Surprise surprise, the Council has this morning gone back on everything they said at the recent meeting between us which was hosted by David Jones, MP, and are still trying to do some back-hand deal with RPG (the Insolvency Practitioners who are supposed to be looking after the pier), to buy the pier and 'cut me out' altogether. Not a terribly wise move - but hey, it is YOUR money they are wasting to desperately try and cover up their tangled web of crimes and corruption, not their own.
 
Naturally any attempt to buy the pier will be challenged, and in any case will be challenged from a financial aspect in a future audit of the Councils financial affairs. You may like to know the 2009 accounts of the Council are STILL under investigation by KPMG, what has been uncovered is now so serious that external lawyers have been called in by KPMG to give legal advice on the criminal issues surrounding the pier.
 
To date KPMG's bill to the local taxpayer in investigating what I have uncovered is £25,000 - and there is a way to go yet, and then a further 2 full years of accounts (at least) to be investigated in due course. Add to this the £42,500 of easily identifiable costs they have spent fighting me (the true cost is believed to be several times this amount - they illegally refuse to release details of what they have really spent so far).
 
Meanwhile a certain Colwyn Bay / Conwy County Councillor has got himself into a rather sticky situation with his latest actions in connection with the pier - can't say much more about that at the moment as it will shortly become a police matter - but watch this space, as they say.
 
Further documents illustrating the collusion between officers of CCBC and RPG will be placed into the public domain shortly."
 
Regards,
Steve Hunt
www.victoriapier.com

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2011, 06:20:21 pm »
I'm told that CCBC have decided to buy Colwyn Bay Pier - perhaps Jason will have some more info for us?

Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #129 on: May 24, 2011, 06:50:52 pm »
According to BBC News, that is true... but they have to go through a process of seeking finding (from the Assembly?) to secure substantial finance for the purchase...AND £3.6m for a ''basic'' renovation.

Fester...
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Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2011, 07:00:31 pm »
process of seeking finding (from the Assembly?) to secure substantial finance for the purchase


How so? The Consultants Report said it was worth...precisely nothing. Our own calculations indicated the same. A nominal amount paid to the Receivers should be all that is required.

Offline Pendragon

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2011, 07:32:07 pm »
It's a farce............again.  Call me cynical but it's the same old story, make a guy bankrupt then buy up what could be a lucrative development.  I mean when its up and running it will turn over cash.  If the council weren't interested to begin with they could have offered the lad some help in the first place.
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Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2011, 07:45:22 pm »
The Pier was a private business. It's not the Council's job to prop up failing businesses. Why would you buy a rotting pier in the first place if you didn't have the money to restore it properly? The feeling at the two public meetings I attended was that the owner was a major part of the problem, not the solution.

I don't think it will ever be lucrative - at best, a charity running it should be able to cover maintenance costs. It's been on the market for about 2 years and no-one was interested in buying it. It would have been snapped up if it made any money at all.

Offline Pendragon

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2011, 08:01:17 pm »
Would any one else apart from the Council be able to obtain money from the Assembly then?
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2011, 08:33:10 pm »
Yes, any non profit group can apply for funding. I think the role of the Council is to resolve the deadlock over ownership and then hand it straight over to the Pier Pressure Group for them to apply for grants etc from various organisations:

"Once in council control, the pier will be put into the hands of the Pier Pressure Group charity, and become eligible for millions of pounds of funding.

Penny Davies is from the Pier Pressure Group and was excited about the prospect of the structure being bought from creditors Royce Peeling Green (RPG).

“We are looking forward to having a clear directive,” she said."


The Group's Plan for the Pier is here:
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=139.msg20376#msg20376