Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.4%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (75%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.5%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 169111 times)

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born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #630 on: March 09, 2017, 04:23:11 PM »
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Covenents aside, I am very sceptical about these two international chains he claims are interested in taking the restaurant spaces. If you have seen the original plans you will know how huge both are....at a guess over a hundred covers in each.  I think big international businesses will do their due diligence and reasearch the market and more than likely come to the conclusion that it would not be a good opportunity as the restaurant market is pretty saturated. Being the cynical person I am I think these restaurant spaces are a red herring, just there to help him get the planning permission, as the council has said it would like there to be something for tourism included. If the plans do get approved I think the restaurants will never get off the ground and the space will simply be converted into more flats!
I assume you are joking? Restaurants on that site would be a gold mine, I imagine there would be stiff competition to land such a prime site. Sitting on the balcony eating your lunch, whilst enjoying the fabulous view - whats not to like?

That's the problem with this world. Why can't you just look at the view without the need of eating as well? Just like people can't watch a film without needing to eat. If anything eating is a distraction from these things!

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #631 on: March 09, 2017, 04:35:04 PM »
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Covenents aside, I am very sceptical about these two international chains he claims are interested in taking the restaurant spaces. If you have seen the original plans you will know how huge both are....at a guess over a hundred covers in each.  I think big international businesses will do their due diligence and reasearch the market and more than likely come to the conclusion that it would not be a good opportunity as the restaurant market is pretty saturated. Being the cynical person I am I think these restaurant spaces are a red herring, just there to help him get the planning permission, as the council has said it would like there to be something for tourism included. If the plans do get approved I think the restaurants will never get off the ground and the space will simply be converted into more flats!
I assume you are joking? Restaurants on that site would be a gold mine, I imagine there would be stiff competition to land such a prime site. Sitting on the balcony eating your lunch, whilst enjoying the fabulous view - whats not to like?

It would be fantastic doing that Dave, but two high quality restaurants in the same place?      CMG is not alone in being cynical, I'm afraid that I am too.    I would put developers, bankers and politicians in the same bracket for being open, honest and trustworthy.      &shake&

Let's take Anwyl for instance and see what they have done:-
Step 1    Apply for planning permission for 25 apartments and keep the central and original structure
Step 2    Leave the building to deteriorate and then apply to demolish it and build an extra few apartments and submit a plan that fits in with the surroundings
Step 3    Wait until the last month before the expiry date and then submit an application for nearly twice as many flats and a building that has no link with the surrounding buildings

mull

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #632 on: March 09, 2017, 04:52:23 PM »
All these new flats will presumably have balconies overlooking the bay.
Has anyone thought about the smell of burgers, fried onions, fish and chips wafting up from below together with the seagulls perching on the handrail waiting to swoop on the takeaway food below, plus the noise from the Golden Goose and other amusments and stalls.

Certainly does nothing for me !   &shake& &shake&

Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #633 on: March 09, 2017, 06:48:53 PM »
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All these new flats will presumably have balconies overlooking the bay.
Has anyone thought about the smell of burgers, fried onions, fish and chips wafting up from below together with the seagulls perching on the handrail waiting to swoop on the takeaway food below, plus the noise from the Golden Goose and other amusments and stalls.

Certainly does nothing for me !   &shake& &shake&

I could not agree more, and I know that I am not the only person that believes that the burger bars, amusement arcades and tat stalls, together with the accompanying dreadful noise and smell is by far the biggest blight on Llandudno and is totally off-putting to many visitors and locals alike, who would love to ample along the pier to the better artisan stalls and superb views of the bay, but refuse to run the gauntlet of noise and smell. I, and many others find it appalling and sadly, we don't take our visitors along the pier. 
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #634 on: March 09, 2017, 11:00:44 PM »
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All these new flats will presumably have balconies overlooking the bay.
Has anyone thought about the smell of burgers, fried onions, fish and chips wafting up from below together with the seagulls perching on the handrail waiting to swoop on the takeaway food below, plus the noise from the Golden Goose and other amusments and stalls.

Certainly does nothing for me !   &shake& &shake&

I could not agree more, and I know that I am not the only person that believes that the burger bars, amusement arcades and tat stalls, together with the accompanying dreadful noise and smell is by far the biggest blight on Llandudno and is totally off-putting to many visitors and locals alike, who would love to ample along the pier to the better artisan stalls and superb views of the bay, but refuse to run the gauntlet of noise and smell. I, and many others find it appalling and sadly, we don't take our visitors along the pier.

There are no 'better artisan stalls' Bosun, 75% are empty now.
Tat sells, food and drink sells... and they can sustain the high rents which are demanded these days.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #635 on: March 10, 2017, 01:35:01 PM »
Aah, that's sad, I'm sorry to hear that. And it indicates the direction of things to come. So much for the luxury apartments.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #636 on: March 11, 2017, 02:44:44 PM »
These developers attempt all types of scams to enable them to maximise the potential for the sites.    Anwyl's tricks at the Penmorfa Hotel in West Shore is a classic example of how they can say one thing and try to do another.    The Castle Hotel at Deganwy is another case and it is happening too often in the area for it to be a coincidence.
I wonder if CMG could be right and that Mr Waldron is trying to pull a fast one with his restaurants, after all he has gone back already on what he originally promised.




SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #637 on: March 13, 2017, 11:26:51 AM »
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These developers attempt all types of scams to enable them to maximise the potential for the sites.    Anwyl's tricks at the Penmorfa Hotel in West Shore is a classic example of how they can say one thing and try to do another.    The Castle Hotel at Deganwy is another case and it is happening too often in the area for it to be a coincidence.
I wonder if CMG could be right and that Mr Waldron is trying to pull a fast one with his restaurants, after all he has gone back already on what he originally promised.
Hugo, I know you are not keen on Facebook, but some good links.....
Just had an Email from FLAG advising their continuing objection to the new pier dev. plans, I also noticed their support for Friends of West Shore against Anwyls plans.
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Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #638 on: March 13, 2017, 02:06:51 PM »
Don't get me going on Facebook Steve       :rage:

But seriously though there are some good points raised on objecting to this planning application for the Pier Pavilion.   I haven't looked at the plans for the development in detail but it's in a conservation area and I'm sure that the developer has not followed all the guidelines that go with it.
My experience with developers in this area over recent years is not to trust them one bit and then you won't be disappointed.  Like I've said already,  in terms of honesty and trust worthiness I put the developers in the same category as bankers and politicians.
This application is so important that it will go to the full planning Committee anyway but the more people that object then the Committee will know the strength of feeling about the issue.
Objections are counted individually, so for instance if a husband and  wife make separate objections then that counts as two objections.   It is not limited to one per household

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #639 on: March 13, 2017, 02:28:41 PM »
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I wonder if CMG could be right and that Mr Waldron is trying to pull a fast one with his restaurants, after all he has gone back already on what he originally promised.
I wouldn't have thought so, in the longer term the rental income from the restaurants will be far more lucrative than the apartments one-off sale price.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #640 on: March 13, 2017, 04:14:39 PM »
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I wonder if CMG could be right and that Mr Waldron is trying to pull a fast one with his restaurants, after all he has gone back already on what he originally promised.
I wouldn't have thought so, in the longer term the rental income from the restaurants will be far more lucrative than the apartments one-off sale price.

You could well be correct Dave, but two top quality restaurants in that building?       Only time will tell if the plan is genuine or not.    As a matter of interest has he now bought the site?

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #641 on: March 13, 2017, 04:35:55 PM »
He doesn't need to buy the site until planning permission is granted.
However, his option to buy it expires very soon, so he may have to pay to extend that.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #642 on: March 13, 2017, 04:40:31 PM »
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I wonder if CMG could be right and that Mr Waldron is trying to pull a fast one with his restaurants, after all he has gone back already on what he originally promised.
I wouldn't have thought so, in the longer term the rental income from the restaurants will be far more lucrative than the apartments one-off sale price.

You could well be correct Dave, but two top quality restaurants in that building?       Only time will tell if the plan is genuine or not.    As a matter of interest has he now bought the site?

I may be getting cynical in my old age, but in my experience, luxury flats and top quality restaurants do not go hand-in-hand with burger bars, amusement arcades and tat stalls, together with the accompanying dreadful noise and smells. Strangely, that sort of ambience doesn't actually attract those who invest in fine dining establishments and them's that enjoy sipping Pimm's on the balcony of their 'luxury apartment'........
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #643 on: March 13, 2017, 06:49:30 PM »
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He doesn't need to buy the site until planning permission is granted.
However, his option to buy it expires very soon, so he may have to pay to extend that.

That's exactly what Anwyl Construction did with the Penmorfa Hotel and you wouldn't expect any business person to buy the site unless they are able to get the required permission.
In this case Mr Waldron may have to pay extra to extend the option to buy

BMD

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #644 on: March 13, 2017, 07:55:50 PM »
Only just had a look at the new Pier Pavilion development submissions. I suspect this version is kind of what they intended all along. Cynic that I am, I think the previous version was made to look as unsympathetic to the surroundings as possible - not just wrong in basic concept (which is the real problem), but cosmetically it looked wrong in every possible way (as if they had a computer-design program with a "First Submission Crassly Unsympathetic" option.

The new version's appearance is obviously more sympathetic to the surroundings, but it's the same oversized, overbearing, heavy-handed concept. The developer is quoted as saying that he "has worked hard to design a building sympathetic to the seaside resortís Victorian landscape and surroundings."

Well, he's failed miserably on that score, in my opinion. But if his real aim was to cram as much money-generating bulk into the space available, regardless of how it affects the area, then he's "succeeded".

The point to me is that Llandudno should set the bar much, much, much higher than this. It's such a beautiful town, rich in architecture, stunning scenery - it's got everything. And this is one of the prime spots. Yet this is the kind of thing you'd expect to see built at any characterless urban development or resort. Tragic.