Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.1%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
50 (75.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (12.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 379631 times)

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Offline Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #210 on: May 30, 2014, 08:51:39 pm »
The owner doesn't want to sell it; he wants planning permission to redevelop it. The Council has no money to rebuild the Pavilion if they compulsory purchase it, so we're caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea.

If you think CCBC are in a mess regarding Mr Hunt and the Pier at Colwyn Bay that would pale into insignificance if they made the wrong decision regarding the pit. So they had better form another Sub Committee to look into it and report back when something turns up. 
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #211 on: May 31, 2014, 09:08:58 am »
CCBC did a Compulsory Purchase on the Market Hall in Colwyn Bay, a complicated site with several different owners. The site was acquired, cleared, and has been left for a year or more until a Developer shows interest.

There would be no difference with the Pier Pavilion site.


Offline Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #212 on: May 31, 2014, 03:25:25 pm »
CCBC did a Compulsory Purchase on the Market Hall in Colwyn Bay, a complicated site with several different owners. The site was acquired, cleared, and has been left for a year or more until a Developer shows interest. There would be no difference with the Pier Pavilion site.

There would be a huge difference as it would amount to land theft; something the Courts take very seriously. Remember Dave, Mr Taylor wants to Develop the site but is being prevented from doing so by CCBC and its planning department. His compensation claim would run into the millions and rightly so.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2014, 12:15:57 am »
Hmmm, BlongB,   no dis-respect, but only someone who does not want to see something developed on that waste ground would think that way.

There can be no benefit for the town as a whole for leaving the Pier Pavilion site in that disgusting state.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2014, 08:40:37 am »
Quote
There would be no difference with the Pier Pavilion site.

I wonder?  In that case I'm not sure if there was any opposition but I suspect there certainly would be with regards to the Pavilion site. And I doubt one can ever be sure how the law will see it if there is. I think the Colwyn Bay experience is a good example of that. On the other hand , leaving the site derelict for so long would surely militate against the current owner in any subsequent legal action. However, the law in the UK is based on land and property ownership, so there has to be a strong case to deprive someone of either. I suspect one aspect would be whether the owner has paid any bils due throughout the period.

All in all it's certainly not a course to undertake lightly.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2014, 09:14:57 am »
CCBC did a Compulsory Purchase on the Market Hall in Colwyn Bay, a complicated site with several different owners. The site was acquired, cleared, and has been left for a year or more until a Developer shows interest. There would be no difference with the Pier Pavilion site.

There would be a huge difference as it would amount to land theft; something the Courts take very seriously. Remember Dave, Mr Taylor wants to Develop the site but is being prevented from doing so by CCBC and its planning department. His compensation claim would run into the millions and rightly so.
He's never submitted a Planning Application in 15+ years, so I doubt that very much. :laugh:

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2014, 09:15:44 am »
Hmmm, BlongB,   no dis-respect, but only someone who does not want to see something developed on that waste ground would think that way.

There can be no benefit for the town as a whole for leaving the Pier Pavilion site in that disgusting state.
Wise words, Mr Fester! 8)

Offline Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #217 on: June 01, 2014, 09:52:44 am »
I remember we've been down this road before, and also that the route to a successful CPO is fraught in the extreme. One thing that does seem important, however, is that in every bit of legislation I've seen there has to be a 'reason'  or 'need' for the land or buildings under scrutiny.

"The first stage is for the acquiring authority to decide that land is required for some particular purpose or scheme and that they are prepared to use compulsory purchase powers to assist in achieving this."

I've attached the 'rulebook' for making a CPO.

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #218 on: June 01, 2014, 05:06:29 pm »
I remember we've been down this road before, and also that the route to a successful CPO is fraught in the extreme. One thing that does seem important, however, is that in every bit of legislation I've seen there has to be a 'reason'  or 'need' for the land or buildings under scrutiny.

"The first stage is for the acquiring authority to decide that land is required for some particular purpose or scheme and that they are prepared to use compulsory purchase powers to assist in achieving this."

I've attached the 'rulebook' for making a CPO.
What reason do you think was given for the CPO of the Market Hall in Colwyn Bay, being as the site was just demolished and cleared, with no Developer signed up? Seems to have all gone through ok though.

Offline Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #219 on: June 01, 2014, 05:22:08 pm »
Quote
What reason do you think was given for the CPO of the Market Hall in Colwyn Bay, being as the site was just demolished and cleared, with no Developer signed up?

I don't know, and that's what I find curious. It does beg the question as to why, with a site that not that many people objected to, they sought and gained a CPO and yet with the P Pavilion - a festering sore in the sweep of Llandudno - no action is apparently being taken. Lots of questions but no answers it seems.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #220 on: June 01, 2014, 06:12:32 pm »
I think that we can conclude that a legal precedent has been set.

The Market Hall was a long running eyesore in Colwyn Bay, over 50% of the complex had been left derelict since the fire in 1987. As with the Pier Pavilion site, the owner had many years to prepare Planning Applications, or, just sell the site. He chose to do neither. CCBC had no problem in arranging the CPO of the site even though no developer was attached to the project.

Mr. Taylor has had 15+ years to either develop the Pier Pavilion site or sell it. It's time to finally say, enough is enough, and acquire it legally from him, with a view to sympathetic redevelopment. I shall be contacting the Chairman of the Communities Overview & Scrutiny Committee to ask that the matter is brought onto the Agenda of the relevant meeting.


Offline Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #221 on: June 01, 2014, 09:19:25 pm »
An excellent move Dave,  it could be the first step towards a cascade of events which achieves great things.
From little acorns and all that, ... follow the process and who knows where it could lead.

A new landmark for Llandudno could emerge on that site, one which could bring a lot of employment and commerce, whilst still adding to the character of this fantastic town.



Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #222 on: June 01, 2014, 11:52:17 pm »
Hmmm, BlongB,   no dis-respect, but only someone who does not want to see something developed on that waste ground would think that way.


Not so Fester, we are not NIMBY's, as we personally wrote to the Tate Modern when they were looking for a Northern Gallery site and to the R.N.L.I. asking if they would consider putting a Lifeboat Museum there, both options would have met with are full approval but sadly both were declined.   
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #223 on: June 02, 2014, 09:19:49 am »
Hmmm, BlongB,   no dis-respect, but only someone who does not want to see something developed on that waste ground would think that way.


Not so Fester, we are not NIMBY's, as we personally wrote to the Tate Modern when they were looking for a Northern Gallery site and to the R.N.L.I. asking if they would consider putting a Lifeboat Museum there, both options would have met with are full approval but sadly both were declined.
Would you be happy to see an entertainment centre on the site,  being of roughly the same size and design of the original Pavilion building?

Offline wrex

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #224 on: June 02, 2014, 05:04:41 pm »
Bigger and better i say,oops too much again.