Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.6%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
45 (73.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (13.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 220474 times)

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Robbie G

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1155 on: February 26, 2020, 09:55:43 AM »
I have heard reports that the build quality is not perfect , hard to believe as Peter Griffiths was the main contractor , a vey well respected company

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1156 on: February 26, 2020, 09:56:22 AM »
This story shows how developers seemly use other peoples money..

"Caer Rhun Hall in the Conwy Valley was bought by Northern Powerhouse Developments(NPD) - owned by Mr Woodhouse - in 2015 for £1m."

"For Caer Rhun Hall Hotel Ltd, there is a £7.5m owed in "Investor Buyback Provisions" and another £179,000 to trade creditors and £739,000 to the HMRC."

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Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1157 on: February 26, 2020, 11:11:54 AM »
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I have heard reports that the build quality is not perfect , hard to believe as Peter Griffiths was the main contractor , a very well respected company

Robbie, it may not have anything to do with the main contractor who as you say is a well respected contractor, it may be something else


Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1158 on: February 26, 2020, 11:25:10 AM »
Steve, as long as you have limited companies it is easy for developers to use other peoples money.   

Director owns the property then forms a company and rents the property to the company.     The company trades but then goes bust so the director still owns the property and in fact becomes a creditor in the liquidation of his or her's own company

Meleri

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1159 on: February 26, 2020, 04:18:41 PM »
Hugo, Thanks for sharing the results of your FOI, interesting reading. They have been a bit economical with the truth & also passed the buck.
It's the CCBC Strategic Planning & Communities Manager & his Viability Appraisal Service who make the decision.
"The agreement by the Planning Committee" mentioned is a load of codswallop. If the Viability Assessment Pro Forma is not on the CCBC planning portal application site the committee like us have no sight of it. They did agree to the application for the development, so it seems the person replying to your FIO appears to lay the blame at their door.
We went to the Snowdonia nurseries yesterday & had a good look at the Glan Conwy Development, what an absolute eyesore. There was no actual Viability Assessment application form or result put on the Planning Portal as far as I can see, but there is mention of it on the Consultation Response.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1160 on: February 26, 2020, 05:04:56 PM »
That's a coincidence Meleri because I was at the Snowdonia Nurseries yesterday afternoon so if you saw someone carrying a very large terracotta pot then that was me.

I do feel sorry for some of those people who bought  a property there as it's a classic case of over development, paying that type of money and not being able to park outside your own house.
The first  semi detached house there was the last to be sold and it's no wonder why.  Every time a car drives down that short drive at night then the headlights of the car will shine directly into that house and it's only a question of time before a car slides into the front of the house

As for the FOI reply that I received then it's not the first time that I've been fobbed off by the CCBC  SO i'M GETTING USED TO IT NOW

Dave

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1161 on: February 26, 2020, 07:56:12 PM »
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That's a coincidence Meleri because I was at the Snowdonia Nurseries yesterday afternoon so if you saw someone carrying a very large terracotta pot then that was me.

I do feel sorry for some of those people who bought  a property there as it's a classic case of over development, paying that type of money and not being able to park outside your own house.
The first  semi detached house there was the last to be sold and it's no wonder why.  Every time a car drives down that short drive at night then the headlights of the car will shine directly into that house and it's only a question of time before a car slides into the front of the house

As for the FOI reply that I received then it's not the first time that I've been fobbed off by the CCBC  SO i'M GETTING USED TO IT NOW

Why feel sorry for anyone who buys a house sandwiched between a main road and a railway line? Parking, of course there's no parking, that was obvious from the plan.
All that is outweighed by the views over the magnificent Conwy. Maybe the buyers thought the tide was permanently in so hopefully they won't be  too disappointed with the stench from the mud when it goes out, anyway, at least they will be able to moan to the people in the neighbouring balcony without having to so much as raise their voices.

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1161 on: February 26, 2020, 07:56:12 PM »


CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1162 on: March 07, 2020, 02:05:20 PM »
The planning department has confirmed that Waldron will have to apply for a variation to his planning permission because he will have to modify the construction plans to accommodate his new access ramp. Looking at where the new ramp is positioned makes me think that it is going to mean reducing the number of parking spaces in the two basement levels.  As the parking is already inadequate for the development based on the councils own formula then any loss of spaces will be unacceptable.  I shall be objecting to his revised plans.

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1163 on: June 19, 2020, 10:42:04 AM »
This is to let everyone know Mr Waldron has resubmitted his planning applications for the site. they are on the Councils Planning Portal as applications 0/47388 and 0/47389 any correspondence with regard to these applications can be sent to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login any comments must be made by the 14/07/2020
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1164 on: September 16, 2020, 03:02:38 PM »
It is with the utmost frustration when reading through the opinions of "so call experts" in respect of the pavilion development, that they can get it so wrong. I refer to a request  for Heritage Advice from Chambers Conservation of Chester to CCBC in which on page 2 of their submission it states:- 

Scale and massing
The original building was relatively tall and of predominantly solid construction, therefore views from other listed buildings were historically blocked - The new building blocked them to a similar extent, but the raking of the roof towards the south lessens the impact.

Impact on the Waverley Hotel (27 North Parade)
Impact acknowledged but change of view to and from the building of similar magnitude to when the Pavilion was in existence.

The photograph clearly show that only one of the Windows in the Waverley Hotel was partially obscured by the Pavilion, the other 10 had a full unrestricted view down the full length of the Promenade and the impact of the proposed design is not in any way comparable with its modest predecessor.

Both statements are in a written submission to Conwy Planning department by Conservation Experts (Chambers Conservation)and I leave it up to you to decide if they are accurate or not.
There have been pages and pages of reports submitted to support the developers, the vast majority of which contain so called facts that are economical  with the truth, to help him get this totally unwarranted development through planning consent.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1165 on: September 16, 2020, 10:19:31 PM »
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It is with the utmost frustration when reading through the opinions of "so call experts" in respect of the pavilion development, that they can get it so wrong. I refer to a request  for Heritage Advice from Chambers Conservation of Chester to CCBC in which on page 2 of their submission it states:- 

Scale and massing
The original building was relatively tall and of predominantly solid construction, therefore views from other listed buildings were historically blocked - The new building blocked them to a similar extent, but the raking of the roof towards the south lessens the impact.

Impact on the Waverley Hotel (27 North Parade)
Impact acknowledged but change of view to and from the building of similar magnitude to when the Pavilion was in existence.

The photograph clearly show that only one of the Windows in the Waverley Hotel was partially obscured by the Pavilion, the other 10 had a full unrestricted view down the full length of the Promenade and the impact of the proposed design is not in any way comparable with its modest predecessor.

Both statements are in a written submission to Conwy Planning department by Conservation Experts (Chambers Conservation)and I leave it up to you to decide if they are accurate or not.
There have been pages and pages of reports submitted to support the developers, the vast majority of which contain so called facts that are economical  with the truth, to help him get this totally unwarranted development through planning consent.

Even someone needing to go to Specsavers would be able to tell the difference between the two buildings in scale and massive.    Why would a firm want to risk their reputation by writing such obvious lies?       Unless of course they thought that the CCBC were so gullible or incompetent to believe them         &shake&

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1166 on: September 17, 2020, 12:10:00 AM »
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Even someone needing to go to Specsavers would be able to tell the difference between the two buildings in scale and massive.    Why would a firm want to risk their reputation by writing such obvious lies?       Unless of course they thought that the CCBC were so gullible or incompetent to believe them         &shake&

He who pays the piper calls the tune Hugo, it was ever so. Just so long as we can expose them and show them up for what they are, an opinion for hire and always take into account, true professionals would never let the truth get in the way of a report they were paid to produce.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1167 on: September 17, 2020, 07:46:48 AM »
BlongB, I notice the two directors of the Company providing this expert opinion that CCBC are relying upon are living 50 miles away and are running their business from a private residence whilst operating by way of two mobile phones.

At the time the Pier Pavilion burnt down, according to Companies House records, they were both barely adults.

I am sure it should not be too difficult for somebody more independent, local and with local knowledge to provide a couple of images; one with the old pier pavilion on and another with an artists impression of the new building on for a true comparison.

Greyhound

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1168 on: September 17, 2020, 11:20:08 AM »
I think this is all pretty unfair actually. These consultants are commenting on the amendments to the original design. The parts quoted came from the report of CCBC's own Conservation Architect Huw Davies (who by his name I would imagine was pretty local, at least Welsh), they are included as a quote from his report. The consultants actually criticise some elements of the proposed changes, such as changes to the Happy Valley Rd elevation and the exterior finish to be used.

Also, who cares about their age and location? I couldn't care less if they were in nappies in 1994. I'm sure we've all worked with many excellent and qualified young people and many rubbish and unqualified older people. And if you're saying that no-one can have an independent opinion on something unless they basically live within a 20-mile radius (or whatever 'local' means), then I think we are in pretty difficult territory. But I guess an 'independent' and therefore I suppose 'correct' opinion is sometimes only ever correct when it suits someone's own predetermined idea of what's correct, otherwise it's wrong. 

Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1169 on: September 17, 2020, 11:44:17 AM »
I wonder if an opinion from someone living immediately behind the proposed development trumps the ‘expert’ opinion?

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1169 on: September 17, 2020, 11:44:17 AM »