Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.4%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (75%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.5%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 169242 times)

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born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #840 on: December 15, 2017, 09:12:57 AM »
I don't know much about this Waldron character. His name sounds a bit like a baddie in a Marvel comic. But aside from that (and assuming he isn't really a super villain) What interest do you think he would have in destroying the town of Llandudno?

He's making a large investment in the hopes of some much needed revitalisation in an important but run down area of the town.
Nobody would suffer more than him if all the things you are saying came true and Llandudno was dealt any kind of "death knell"

The industry is changing, what was appealing 20 years ago (and as far as Llandudno is concerned the last 100 years) will not be appealing in 20 years time (when a significant population of the town's regular visitors will be pushing up Daises) 

The modern building and restaurants will appeal massively to the younger generations both local and tourist and hopefully do something to change the reputation of Llandudno to something other than "God's waiting room"

Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #841 on: December 15, 2017, 09:22:01 AM »
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You see, I think that the Venue Cymru is arguably more at the ‘epicentre’ of the town, than the Pier Pavilion.


Er, Venue Crymru the epicentre of the town? The equivalent of the 'town square' possibly the most prominent site in Llandudno where every visitor and holidaymaker stroll at some stage of their visit and is featured on every instantly recognisable photograph of Llandudno....?

Hmm, let me think about that.......

 
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Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #842 on: December 15, 2017, 09:42:36 AM »
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I don't know much about this Waldron character. His name sounds a bit like a baddie in a Marvel comic. But aside from that (and assuming he isn't really a super villain) What interest do you think he would have in destroying the town of Llandudno?

He's making a large investment in the hopes of some much needed revitalisation in an important but run down area of the town.
Nobody would suffer more than him if all the things you are saying came true and Llandudno was dealt any kind of "death knell"

The industry is changing, what was appealing 20 years ago (and as far as Llandudno is concerned the last 100 years) will not be appealing in 20 years time (when a significant population of the town's regular visitors will be pushing up Daises) 

The modern building and restaurants will appeal massively to the younger generations both local and tourist and hopefully do something to change the reputation of Llandudno to something other than "God's waiting room"

Utter rubbish. The towns had that building philosophy in the 1960's killed themselves off whilst the towns that preserved their heritage, Ludlow, Berwick, Rye, are all  thriving prosperous towns. The one thing that Llandudno has got is the Victorian architectural atmosphere of the promenade frontage. Kill that with this building and watch the town slowly die. Mr Waldron doesn't care about that, Deganwy Quay is proof of that. As long as his flats sell, he'll be happy on the profit. 

Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #843 on: December 15, 2017, 10:27:47 AM »
You're talking about massive urban redevelopment. Not the replacement of one derelict building!

Bosun

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #844 on: December 15, 2017, 10:41:25 AM »
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You're talking about massive urban redevelopment. Not the replacement of one derelict building!

How do you think it starts.....?
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #845 on: December 15, 2017, 12:01:23 PM »
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He's making a large investment in the hopes of some much needed revitalisation in an important but run down area of the town.
Nobody would suffer more than him if all the things you are saying came true and Llandudno was dealt any kind of "death knell"

I suspect he's making a large investment in the simple hope of a much larger return.  After all, he's not been the first to try it. And if Llandudno sacrificed its uniqueness the effects would be gradual, indeed, by which time he'd no doubt have moved elsewhere.

But he's also making it a choice: stick with the unappealing 'hole' or allow him to build. The sad fact is that no one's come forward with any serious money and ideas to do anything else.  Perhaps CCBC should have gone for the CPO route. Why didn't that happen, I wonder?
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Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #846 on: December 15, 2017, 12:06:19 PM »
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You see, I think that the Venue Cymru is arguably more at the ‘epicentre’ of the town, than the Pier Pavilion.


Er, Venue Crymru the epicentre of the town? The equivalent of the 'town square' possibly the most prominent site in Llandudno where every visitor and holidaymaker stroll at some stage of their visit and is featured on every instantly recognisable photograph of Llandudno....?

Hmm, let me think about that.......

Bosun, it’s debatable as I said, but it’s interesting to note that our beloved visitors are all dropped off at the coach park near VC, and expected to make their way to your ‘epicentre’... but that’s another issue.

BTR,  I don’t think you can be dealt a ‘death knell’,  it’s the tolling of a funereal bell. 
Don’t you know anything man?   :laugh:
Fester...
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CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #847 on: December 15, 2017, 12:48:06 PM »
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You see, I think that the Venue Cymru is arguably more at the ‘epicentre’ of the town, than the Pier Pavilion.


Er, Venue Crymru the epicentre of the town? The equivalent of the 'town square' possibly the most prominent site in Llandudno where every visitor and holidaymaker stroll at some stage of their visit and is featured on every instantly recognisable photograph of Llandudno....?

Hmm, let me think about that.......

Bosun, it’s debatable as I said, but it’s interesting to note that our beloved visitors are all dropped off at the coach park near VC, and expected to make their way to your ‘epicentre’... but that’s another issue.

BTR,  I don’t think you can be dealt a ‘death knell’,  it’s the tolling of a funereal bell. 
Don’t you know anything man?   :laugh:

I agree with Bosun, Venue is not the epicentre and if people are dropped of at the coach park because there is nowhere else for coaches to park!  Our guests come by private car or train as do thousands more.  Our guests represent the overall demographic of our population (which is aging so there are more older people around everywhere these days). we get lots of younger people (20s and 30s) and lots of tourists from abroad who love the place for its old fashioned charm.  Adam Williams wanted to buy the land but Waldron 'piped him to the post' he wants to develop  it and reincorporate it back into the pier.  His plans sound preferable to Waldron's, much more in line with what the majority of people are saying they want to see there. 

born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #848 on: December 15, 2017, 01:37:52 PM »
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You see, I think that the Venue Cymru is arguably more at the ‘epicentre’ of the town, than the Pier Pavilion.


Er, Venue Crymru the epicentre of the town? The equivalent of the 'town square' possibly the most prominent site in Llandudno where every visitor and holidaymaker stroll at some stage of their visit and is featured on every instantly recognisable photograph of Llandudno....?

Hmm, let me think about that.......

Bosun, it’s debatable as I said, but it’s interesting to note that our beloved visitors are all dropped off at the coach park near VC, and expected to make their way to your ‘epicentre’... but that’s another issue.

BTR,  I don’t think you can be dealt a ‘death knell’,  it’s the tolling of a funereal bell. 
Don’t you know anything man?   :laugh:

I was thinking of dealt a death blow. But thanks for the info  :P

BTW I dare say a death knell would sound a lot more pleasant than your Motorhead noise  8)

pebbles

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #849 on: December 16, 2017, 01:41:39 PM »
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I don't agree about the wind farm, Fester; for a start it's quite a way off the foreshore, is isolated and not affecting anything else, and is a feature of interest, if not somewhat elegant in its own right.  I like windmills.

A wind turbine is a windmill-like structure specifically developed to generate electricity. They can be seen as the next step in the development of the windmill.


haha your opinion, not the majority ;)
The things in the sea are wind turbines. Full stop.

Windmill -
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Turbine -
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Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #850 on: December 16, 2017, 02:19:48 PM »
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A wind turbine is a windmill-like structure specifically developed to generate electricity. They can be seen as the next step in the development of the windmill.
haha your opinion, not the majority ;)
The things in the sea are wind turbines. Full stop.


Actually, it's a quote from Wikipedia and Britannica says the same thing, so it's not just my opinion. The "things" in the sea are windmills; they can also be called turbines, as a turbine and a windmill are both "machines for producing continuous power in which a wheel or rotor, typically fitted with vanes, is made to revolve by a fast-moving flow of water, steam, gas, air, or other fluid." . Windmill is a generic term, as is Turbine, but most turbines are associated with jet engines.

Interestingly, the prime function of the Dutch Windmills was to provide power to drain the land. Thus these latest windmills are simply a different design. They may not be as picturesque of course, but they're still essentially windmills.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:25:01 AM by Ian »
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

mondie

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #851 on: December 16, 2017, 04:51:26 PM »
Spotted on this arvos walk.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 06:33:13 PM by Ian »

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #852 on: December 16, 2017, 04:57:17 PM »
Looks like Waldron has already been at it and blown it over.      ;D

Dave

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #853 on: December 18, 2017, 09:38:54 AM »
Surely Parc Llandudno is now the epicentre of town?
Venue Cymru was the first carbuncle on the seafront but it just about get's away with it, many will disagree but I think the new lifeboat station is the second and whatever is stuck on the pier will probably end up being the third the way things are going.. Whatever is built there though has to be financially viable, recreating a Victorian glass dome isn't. I can only believe those that want to leave it as a squalid hole are only concerned with loosing their sea view.
Will developing the site bring the town to it's knees? Not if it's handled correctly it shouldn't. It might make developing the site more expensive but that should be taken in to consideration when planning whatever is to be built there. As to causing accidents,fatalities even,due to building works, that argument is scraping the barrel.
Luxury apartments annoy those that can't afford them but come on, affordable houses in such a prime position? Not going to happen and besides they wouldn't stay affordable for long and they would be a design compromise on such a fine spot.
Would there be such feeling against building a new hotel? Probably not as much as there is to apartments but there doesn't seem to be any interest in such a development.
Do we want to keep and treasure our pier? Yes, we certainly do and it's economic viability should not be threatened by any development whatsoever In my humble opinion.
It's time our councillors and planners earned their crust and ensured the right thing is done for the town and so far I don't see that happening.

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #854 on: December 18, 2017, 11:05:58 AM »
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Adam Williams wanted to buy the land but Waldron 'piped him to the post' he wants to develop  it and reincorporate it back into the pier.  His plans sound preferable to Waldron's, much more in line with what the majority of people are saying they want to see there.
What plans are these? I've not seen any mention of them online or in the paper? How does he expect to garner any public support when he doesn't show people his plans?