Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.1%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
50 (75.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (12.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 380499 times)

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Offline Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #900 on: March 14, 2018, 11:38:01 am »
I’ve come to the conclusion that those few who now lead the opposition to the new development are doing so out of selfish and short sighted self interest.
As, to be fair, I would, if the view from my house was adversely affected.
That about summarises the issue now I think.
The opposition have made it abundantly clear that they don’t want anything building on that site, EVER.

We made our living from people who wanted to come to Llandudno because it wasn't like everywhere else it was a largely intact Victorian Seascape set in a Conservation area, put there to protect and enhance the town. It is NOTselfish or short sighted self interest to want to protect that principal. Wake up Fester and take a long slow look at who have objected to Mr. Waldrons Plans and then ask why there aren't thousands of letters of support for the development on the Planning Portal.

As to your second point:  For the last 21 years we have had the privilege of owning 1 of the 3 most affected properties should this development proceed. At no time have either my Wife or I raised any objection to the Pavilion site being redeveloped in a manner that is in keeping with its setting. This is not what is currently being proposed by Mr Waldron and you know it. Now safer un-vested heads are going to look into the matter and I await the outcome of their deliberations with interest.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #901 on: March 14, 2018, 12:20:17 pm »
I’ve come to the conclusion that those few who now lead the opposition to the new development are doing so out of selfish and short sighted self interest.
As, to be fair, I would, if the view from my house was adversely affected.
That about summarises the issue now I think.
The opposition have made it abundantly clear that they don’t want anything building on that site, EVER.

We made our living from people who wanted to come to Llandudno because it wasn't like everywhere else it was a largely intact Victorian Seascape set in a Conservation area, put there to protect and enhance the town. It is NOTselfish or short sighted self interest to want to protect that principal. Wake up Fester and take a long slow look at who have objected to Mr. Waldrons Plans and then ask why there aren't thousands of letters of support for the development on the Planning Portal.

As to your second point:  For the last 21 years we have had the privilege of owning 1 of the 3 most affected properties should this development proceed. At no time have either my Wife or I raised any objection to the Pavilion site being redeveloped in a manner that is in keeping with its setting. This is not what is currently being proposed by Mr Waldron and you know it. Now safer un-vested heads are going to look into the matter and I await the outcome of their deliberations with interest.

Completely agree as an owner of one of the other properties most affected I'm not bothered about loss of a view...there are far more things at stake than the view which would adversely affect the whole town. I would like to see it developed to the same height as before with something that will benefit the tourist industry in Llandudno..,and therefore be for the greater good. Adam Williams plans sound like just the ticket....but Waldron won't sell to him. 


Offline CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #902 on: March 14, 2018, 12:23:51 pm »
IT was our AM, Janet Finch-Saunders who requested the Call-In. She isn't affected by loss of a view or in any other way personally...and I presume she has the long term interests of her constituency in mind.

Offline norman08

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #903 on: March 14, 2018, 12:29:39 pm »
We all agree that something Has to be built there , but Waldron seems to ride rough shod over everyone , I am very fearful that ccbc will give their agreement to this as this lot are so spineless ,   1 how many local residents could afford one ,2 who has he got earmarked for the two restaraunts  as the one that the tudno castle had comming in won't be , 3 I,m wondering how low his underground car park will be as having worked on the pier in the 70s under there used to flood on the high tides .

Offline Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #904 on: March 14, 2018, 01:09:04 pm »
I’ve come to the conclusion that those few who now lead the opposition to the new development are doing so out of selfish and short sighted self interest.
As, to be fair, I would, if the view from my house was adversely affected.
That about summarises the issue now I think.
The opposition have made it abundantly clear that they don’t want anything building on that site, EVER.

Even on this site, with a comparatively small number of votes cast, only a meagre 3% favour the Waldron plan, and 72% favour a more leisure-oriented approach, so I suspect your assessment is way off, F.

I'm aware no one else has suggested putting any money in to build something else, but to be fair we don't know for sure they haven't.  We have no knowledge of whether any enquires about buying the site were made to any of the owners during the time it's been empty. Is it possible they've been squatting on it, waiting for it to acquire value?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #905 on: March 14, 2018, 04:15:37 pm »
It’s an emotive issue, especially if you have a vested interest as you’ve declared.
I have no vested interest either way, so I look at the Facebook campaign page, which has very few likes and even fewer informed contributors.
Like I said, if it affected me personally, I’d be up in arms against it.... I really would.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #906 on: March 14, 2018, 05:07:48 pm »
RE todays council meeting.....FB   saying voting went 5 for 5 against, the chair had deciding vote, she voted for.

Offline Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #907 on: March 14, 2018, 05:53:06 pm »
On such a sensitive issue, I wonder what would have happened had the Chair abstained?

Offline Meleri

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #908 on: March 14, 2018, 06:25:06 pm »
The Chairwoman had no choice but to cast the final vote, she was mortified as it hadn't happened before. I was at the meeting and we were all shocked as it seemed to be going against for the best part of the debate. The owner of the Pier gave a very good speech and the Committee mainly spoke about highways and where the people who would use the restaurant would park. There was a lot of sneering going on from the people with the pier owner when the fire escape details were being discussed.They did announce it would be Webcast so if anyone is interested it should be on to view soon  :o

Offline Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #909 on: March 14, 2018, 06:35:58 pm »
Thank you for the explanation, Meleri.

I watched the Webast at home.

I also watched last month’s Cabinet meeting where the change to a four-weekly bin collection was approved with a vote of 5-4.

On that occasion, I seem to recall the Council Leader was the Chair and he voted together with the eight other cabinet members without adopting a chair’s casting vote.

Offline Meleri

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #910 on: March 14, 2018, 10:36:10 pm »
I'm sorry but I forgot quite an important point earlier, that the application got called in to the Welsh Government (Planning Directorate) and they issued a direction not to grant planning permission in respect of the application or any development of the same kind, without the prior authorisation of the Welsh Ministers. So although CCBC Planning Committee voted for it, the last word goes to The Welsh Ministers. A few of the Councillors and the Chairwoman weren't very happy about this at all.

Offline Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #911 on: March 15, 2018, 12:38:14 am »
So it’s going ahead then?
Because the Welsh Assembly will have to rule on the legal planning criteria only.
Therefore it’s passed I believe.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Edith Perry

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #912 on: March 15, 2018, 07:29:04 am »
It’s an emotive issue, especially if you have a vested interest as you’ve declared.
I have no vested interest either way, so I look at the Facebook campaign page, which has very few likes and even fewer informed contributors.
Like I said, if it affected me personally, I’d be up in arms against it.... I really would.

According to the straw-poll, the majority of people who don't have a vested interest oppose the current plans; so if that's your criteria for winning a debate, you've already lost. Personally I'm opposed and I've never even heard of a Facebook campaign, what does that dying website have to do with local opinion anyway?

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #913 on: March 15, 2018, 09:38:10 am »
As I've said before, the problem is that there has never been another plan put forward for the site, even though developers have had 20+ years in order to acquire the site and submit plans...they chose not to do so.

Conwy Council, and its predecessor authority, have had 30+ years to acquire the Pavilion/site under a Compulsory Purchase Order...but chose not to do so.

The Pier Owner had the same ability to acquire the Pavilion site that Mr Waldron had...but chose not to do so.

Looking at it pragmatically, the proposed Pavilion development will generate £78k/year in additional Council Tax from the apartments (52 x £1500) and create 100 permanent jobs....the present hole in the ground generates nothing for the town.

Offline Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #914 on: March 15, 2018, 09:48:55 am »
Not that I'm doubting you, Dave, but how do we know for sure that "The Pier Owner had the same ability to acquire the Pavilion site that Mr Waldron had...but chose not to do so."?

I've always wondered why the CPO process was never invoked so perhaps the council should be asked?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.