Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.4%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (75%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.5%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 166333 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #705 on: April 13, 2017, 01:14:32 PM »
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Mostyn Estates has submitted a 14-page letter objecting to the development. Included in this document is reference to the fact that the Colonnades to Happy Valley are part of the Pier Pavilion Development site and they question why the current site owner has not been pursued to carry out maintenance with the same vigour the Council demonstrated towards Colwyn Bay Pier. Ouch! So Waldron's "offer" to smarten up the Colonnades was actually an obligation as possible future ownership.


That's very interesting Ormemac, perhaps Mostyn Estates will now write in objecting  to the Castle Hotel,  the Llandudno Youth Centre and Penmorfa Hotel sites


Perhaps Mostyn Estates never saw this photo before and that's why the didn't write in about this place

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #706 on: April 15, 2017, 10:53:54 AM »
Mostyn Estates says Llandudno Pier Pavilion plan should be 'withdrawn'
Landowner has launched a scathing attack on the apartment and restaurant proposals.
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Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #707 on: April 27, 2017, 04:17:27 PM »
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Not sure what the Colonnade has to do with the Pavilion site.  This was built in 1931/32 as an "unemployment relief" scheme by Llandudno UDC, to the design of the Mostyn Agent, G A Humphreys, and are now owned by Conwy CBC.

I wonder if the term "colonnades" has been used to mean the metal uprights or columns which are all that seem to remain of the frontage of the Pavilion ??

Yes the term Colonnade in the Planning Application does refer to the remains of the Cast Iron Work of the old Pavilion and not to the Concrete walkway leading up to Happy Valley
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #708 on: May 03, 2017, 11:19:37 AM »
You can fool some of the people some of the time..........

Llandudno Pier Pavilion architect talks about the £15m scheme...and reveals some of the rejected designs
Architect Alwyn Rowlands said the development needed to be 'the beacon of a new start'.

“The task was very challenging; to design a building within a site which had been vacant for 20 years in an area of outstanding natural beauty surrounded by listed buildings – it is one of the most architecturally sensitive sites in Wales."

 “Initial proposals looked to draw influences from the previous and surrounding architecture with a stepped back form, curved roof reminiscent of the original pavilion building and arched openings as a continuation of the Grand Hotel elevation."

“A consultation period last summer concluded that a simplified and unique architectural language should be adopted for the proposed development.  (Bigger and cheaper)

"It was considered that we were trying to do too much with elements of Victorian, art deco and modernist architecture all competing for prominence, with the overall effect distracting from the splendor
 of its surroundings.   
“As a result we looked at it again and together decided the best way forward – objectives outlined by the Design Commission -    (*****)   was to simplify both the form and materials to adopt a more minimalist style.”
“There needed to be the beacon of a new start, as the old pavilion closed down as a leisure facility in the 1990s having not been used as a theatre for years,” said Alwyn

Developer Alan conceded there would be temporary traffic measures on Happy Valley Road – the road will not close - but hopes residents and business owners will be supportive of the development long-term.

“We have spoken to many     ( TWO )   people locally in preparing these plans and they are in agreement something needs to be done about this site, which has been an eyesore for too long and detracted from its beautiful surroundings,” he said.
Alwyn added that the “construction technique” will be considered carefully to mitigate as much disruption as possible."    ( TOUGH )

“The site is of such significance that of course it should encourage a balanced debate, and we have been open to feedback and input so we can come up with the best possible development for the area,” he said.   ( ****** )

“Our duty is to consider ourselves looking back at Llandudno in 50 years’ time; will the site still be a hole, will we still be debating what to put there, will we be looking at an empty plot next to a derelict building?”
Alan believes that while this is an opportunity to regenerate a site lost to the town for many years, the scheme must also be viable to it is sustainable for generations to come" 
This is a large development and needs to be so it is of a high quality, particularly the foundations and tanking to get to ground level – which includes retaining original columns,” he said.

“This final stripped-back version resulted in a hybrid scheme between the copper lantern and the glass box which partially obscured the balcony to provide a vertical rhythm and solar shading.

“Balcony overhangs will allow the residential units and at restaurant level to benefit from solar shading particularly during the summer.”
Unlikely that whatever is put there will meet approval of everyone

He said that by providing a clear route for the public realm to integrate through the development from public walkway spaces accessed off Happy Valley Road or pier level, it will ensure that visitors and local residents will enjoy the fresh and vibrant new space to appreciate this spectacular location

“This is a building that draws references from Llandudno’s rich history, but also has its own identity and we truly believe the town would be proud of it.”     $angry$
The scheme is expected at the planning committee this summer.
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CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #709 on: May 03, 2017, 06:40:18 PM »
Developer Alan conceded there would be temporary traffic measures on Happy Valley Road – the road will not close - but hopes residents and business owners will be supportive of the development long-term.

....not a cat in hell's chance Alan! This local resident and business owner will never be supportive. I fully believe the claim that the road will not close is a lie, the road will have to be used for deliveries of tons and tons of building materials, location of several portacabins, parking for construction vehicles, plant and machinery because there is absolutely no where on the site for these things and there will be no where near enough room on the fenced off pavement area.

The scathing objection from Mostyn Estates claims that due to the many flaws in the application that the council has only two options, tell him to withdraw the application or reject it outright.  The Town Council objected, the Victorian Society objected, the Civic Society objected, the council's own Conservation Officer objected, the Hospitality Association objected and around 70 individual objections have been made, Cadw distanced it's self from the whole thing and The Design Council didn't really approve!  Some consultation Alan...who are you listening to???

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #710 on: May 03, 2017, 08:17:37 PM »
You say you'll NEVER be supportive CMG?

Sad to hear that you don't want anything on that site, that you are happy with decay and dereliction.

 &shake& &shake& &shake&
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

BMD

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #711 on: May 03, 2017, 09:46:53 PM »
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“Initial proposals looked to draw influences from the previous and surrounding architecture with a stepped back form, curved roof reminiscent of the original pavilion building and arched openings as a continuation of the Grand Hotel elevation."

“A consultation period last summer concluded that a simplified and unique architectural language should be adopted for the proposed development.  (Bigger and cheaper)

"It was considered that we were trying to do too much with elements of Victorian, art deco and modernist architecture all competing for prominence, with the overall effect distracting from the splendor
 of its surroundings.   
“As a result we looked at it again and together decided the best way forward – objectives outlined by the Design Commission -    (*****)   was to simplify both the form and materials to adopt a more minimalist style.”

The initial two design concepts seem a massive improvement on the final submission. Surely that stepped-back approach was the way to go, to avoid it being overbearing and blocky. The architects clearly had some good intentions. Then, in some "design consultations", the whole thing regressed to what they disingenuously call "a more minimalist style".

It's reminiscent of what happened with Porth Eirias - an originally reasonably attractive and ambitious design "simplified", in consultations, to something ugly. I wish I could read the minutes of these "consultations" which regress the design (in both LLandudno and Colwyn Bay cases) - the reasons given sounding totally suspect to me.

As for the way they end up describing the final Benidorm-bog-standard submission ("hybrid scheme between the copper lantern and the glass box... vertical rhythm..." etc), it reminds me of the "chameleon-like properties" of the zinc cladding which replaced the windows of the skip.



CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #712 on: May 03, 2017, 10:46:10 PM »
Hi Fester..never of Waldron's hideous oversized inappropriate white elephant.  I would be very supportive of something the same height and mass of the listed building which was burnt down, which is in keeping with the historic use of the site - for entertainment and tourism and in keeping (modern is fine) with the conservation area and well defined principles for the conservation area...AND as specified by the council in its own development brief for that site.

..  I also believe someone will propose something suitable ...sooner rather than later...or I've been lied to.

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #713 on: May 04, 2017, 10:56:26 AM »
I think this whole article was nothing other than a promotional public relations exercise, even the use of past design photos, making us think that's what we would end up with, this piece should have been headed  " ADVERTISMENT "

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #714 on: May 05, 2017, 08:47:30 AM »
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I also believe someone will propose something suitable ...sooner rather than later...or I've been lied to.
Where have they been for the last 20 years??  &shake&

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #715 on: May 06, 2017, 03:28:26 AM »
Instead of  temporary traffic lights on Happy Valley Road read on North Parade. Shows how much research Waldron's done when he can't even get the name of the Street right and which property opposite is Gwesty Bach? I'm with CMJ there will be no support from me either, until he can come up with a design that isn't going to look stright into my 4th floor bedroom  &shake&
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #716 on: May 06, 2017, 03:43:22 PM »
Latest addition to the planning portal PP application are the minutes from a meeting of CCBC Conservation Area Advisory Panel....they object to the application! 

Yes, the piece in the Post was most definitely advertorial, a quite pathetic bit of PR. Shows the Post is behind Waldron publishing such blatant promotion!


CMG

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #717 on: May 06, 2017, 03:49:59 PM »
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I also believe someone will propose something suitable ...sooner rather than later...or I've been lied to.
Where have they been for the last 20 years??  &shake&

I was told the land had been in trust until quite recently. I think that means it wasn't available for anyone else to buy?  ....and it's pretty obvious the owners weren't interested in developing it or they would have done so.

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #718 on: May 22, 2017, 03:26:57 PM »
Pier Pavilion development could put Llandudno Pier 'at risk' - claims attraction chiefs
They have written to planners to warn about the potential impact on income streams.

They claim that the scheme could have a severe negative impact on income streams to the pier - putting money for maintenance work at risk.
They said this could come from a loss of existing kiosks, disruption during construction, and potential further restrictions on the arcade licences due to the presence of residential apartments.

The letter, submitted by Caulmert on behalf of Llandudno Pier owner Adam Williams, said: "The proposed development has the potential, in combination, to reduce significantly the income generated by the pier, in both the short and long terms.

"A reduction in the quality of the pier environment, through reduced expenditure on maintenance, or uncertainty over the future viability of the pier would be likely to have a major adverse impact on tourism in Llandudno."

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OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #719 on: May 22, 2017, 08:04:35 PM »
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Pier Pavilion development could put Llandudno Pier 'at risk' - claims attraction chiefs
They have written to planners to warn about the potential impact on income streams.

They claim that the scheme could have a severe negative impact on income streams to the pier - putting money for maintenance work at risk.
They said this could come from a loss of existing kiosks, disruption during construction, and potential further restrictions on the arcade licences due to the presence of residential apartments.

The letter, submitted by Caulmert on behalf of Llandudno Pier owner Adam Williams, said: "The proposed development has the potential, in combination, to reduce significantly the income generated by the pier, in both the short and long terms.

"A reduction in the quality of the pier environment, through reduced expenditure on maintenance, or uncertainty over the future viability of the pier would be likely to have a major adverse impact on tourism in Llandudno."

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Any yet again the Daily Post pads the article out with stuff from Waldron promoting his scheme. Where was the 'balance' in their recent advertorial about how wonderful the planned development will be?