Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (7%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (73.7%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.3%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 192454 times)

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DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #510 on: November 17, 2016, 08:48:06 AM »
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What Mr Waldron has failed to take into account is his proposal would led to massive increases in operating costs to the Kiosk renters if they move their businesses from the current wooden structures into purpose built stone structures within a new build development. They would be liable for Rent, Business Rates, and no doubt Management Fees which would make them totally unviable.   &shake&
They pay rent now, Blongb, quite a decent amount, I'm sure, given their prime trading position on the pier. As for business rates, shops that size won't pay any, as they would be under the 100% exemption rate of £6k for Small Business Rate Relief.

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #511 on: November 17, 2016, 09:02:10 AM »
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When I asked Mr Waldron to explain his reasoning behind the use of black reflective glass for his windows he said it was because the Pavilion had a glass roof, so thought it would be in keeping. Take a look at Dave R's Post Reply 498 above. Look at the Photograph of the Old Pavilion and make your own minds up. I think any glass roof there might have been was replaced around 1875 when it was converted from a covered swimming pool into a theatre.

From wiki...

The pavilion was scheduled to open in the Spring of 1883, but a ferocious storm on the night of 25 January 1883 resulted in severe damage to the glass roof. Following a rethink of the roof's design (and much embarrassment to the building's architects, who were promptly dismissed by the pier company), the decision was taken to replace the original glass roof with a sturdy lead one, more suited to the demands of a North Wales location in winter. Extensive rebuilding work was required, and the building did not open officially until September 1886.
Trivia fact: I actually wrote that Wiki article, many years ago.

Yes, the Pavilion was originally intended to be more of a Winter Garden type structure, with extensive glass roof. Interestingly, the ornate cast iron columns and balcony extant today were not part of the original design either:

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #512 on: November 17, 2016, 10:51:02 PM »
Nice one Mr author of wiki article!!

Did the first picture ever get built then? 
Fester...
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SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #513 on: November 19, 2016, 02:34:49 PM »

Some inretesting comments from 2011 which seem to have been forgotton, and contradict CCBC and CADW aleged latest advice?

The council report notes that the site lies in a focal position within the designated Llandudno Conservation Area.

There are numerous listed buildings in the vicinity of the site, including The Grand Hotel which is Grade II and the Pier itself which is Grade II*.
The Great Orme provides the backdrop to the site and, together with the whole town, is included in the Conwy and Creuddyn Historic Landscape of Outstanding Interest.
The remains of the Pier Pavilion structure also retain their listed status.

The council's Community Overview and Scrutiny Committee will be told that Cadw - which looks after historical monuments in Wales - considers it be an extremely important site in conservation designation terms.
Full article......
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DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #514 on: November 21, 2016, 08:37:16 AM »
A petition has been created, for those that wish to object to the proposed design of the new Pier Pavilion:

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SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #515 on: November 21, 2016, 11:47:24 AM »
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As we thought, the design of the new Pavilion building is actually the result of input from CCBC, CADW and the Design Commission for Wales. The Architects/Developer originally favoured a design more reminiscent of the original building. Current planning practice prefers a clearly contemporary new build, rather than an attempt to emulate a Victorian design.

Alwyn Rowlands, director of Creu, said their design had been created after consultation with Conwy’s planning and conservation chiefs, Cadw and the Design Commission of Wales.

He said: “Due to site constraints resulting in abnormally high anticipated development costs, to prove viable the brief stated that the scheme accommodation was to comprise a mixed use scheme of below ground parking, commercial restaurant floor space with residential accommodation above.
“Clear direction was given through consultation that the proposal should not attempt to copy the Victorian detailing of the surrounding buildings and that it should stand independently as a modern building with its own identity and architectural character.

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I asked the question before     Why CCBC and CADW  were advising a modern build , now according to a recent BBC article, it appears this advice is from  the design commision for Wales only.

In a statement, Creu said consultation feedback recommended the scheme "should stand independently as a modern building with its own identity and architectural character".

They added: "A Design Commission for Wales report stated that the proposals should avoid trying to replicate details from the former pavilion and the existing structures in the vicinity and that simplification was needed to achieve the level of quality required given the context, prominence and size of the building.

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DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #516 on: November 21, 2016, 12:15:29 PM »
If anyone wishes to read the Design Commission Report on the Pier Pavilion, it can be downloaded here:
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SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #517 on: November 21, 2016, 12:40:08 PM »
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If anyone wishes to read the Design Commission Report on the Pier Pavilion, it can be downloaded here:
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Thank you Dave, an eye opening report, I am no wiser as to the developers intentions, other than he is playing us.

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #518 on: November 21, 2016, 01:02:41 PM »
I was browsing You know your from Llandudno if..... on Facebook last night when I came across this link You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login If you agree please sign it and show the Planners the depth of feeling against this design. $thanx$
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #519 on: November 22, 2016, 11:16:44 AM »
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A petition has been created, for those that wish to object to the proposed design of the new Pier Pavilion:

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I am surprised that only 635 people have signed the petition so far, I expected a lot more.


born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #520 on: November 22, 2016, 12:28:59 PM »
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A petition has been created, for those that wish to object to the proposed design of the new Pier Pavilion:

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I am surprised that only 635 people have signed the petition so far, I expected a lot more.

Not bad - it's over 1/40 of the whole population of the town. Should give them cause for concern.

PhilMick

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #521 on: November 22, 2016, 01:16:44 PM »
I don't like it, but I wonder how many people would vote for it? :twoface:

PhilMick

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #522 on: November 22, 2016, 01:22:51 PM »
Just had this email from the petiton people:

Dear friends,

Thanks to your support we have raised the awareness of the future of the former pier pavilion site in Llandudno.

Today the DAILY POST newspaper have written an article on line regarding public concerns about the development. there will be further coverage in the paper edition. CCBC and the developers have been asked to comment and confirm they will discuss the concerns with CCBC. 

The job however is not done and we must continue to collect as much support as possible.

The more people who sign the petition, the more chance we have of winning the changes we all want to see. I'm emailing you to ask if you can go one step further and share the petition with your friends and family if you haven't already done so.

If  you have any support you can offer or suggestions how to take this campaign forward please message me through the 38 degrees website at the link below.


Here's the link You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #523 on: November 22, 2016, 01:56:41 PM »
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A petition has been created, for those that wish to object to the proposed design of the new Pier Pavilion:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I am surprised that only 635 people have signed the petition so far, I expected a lot more.

635 people in 2 days Steve and I think most of those will have found out about the petition, like I did, by accident. If the Daily Post puts a link to it, so that it can reach more people, then we will see the numbers rise expediently.   $good$
-- Now I can only sit and stare--

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #524 on: November 22, 2016, 02:53:33 PM »
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A petition has been created, for those that wish to object to the proposed design of the new Pier Pavilion:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I am surprised that only 635 people have signed the petition so far, I expected a lot more.
635 people in 2 days Steve and I think most of those will have found out about the petition, like I did, by accident. If the Daily Post puts a link to it, so that it can reach more people, then we will see the numbers rise expediently.   $good$

Your right B. there is no mention of the link other than the 38degrees campaign,   .......TOM  ?   ?     ?   ;)