Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (7%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (73.7%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.3%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 184648 times)

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Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #480 on: November 12, 2016, 05:58:24 PM »
So that is what was going on yesterday when we were passing.

No doubt, the pier owner and his army of about a dozen men had permission to access that area and carry out the work that they did.

Anyway, when I viewed the plans for the new kiosks recently in the library, they were incorporated into the new development and to the rear of the existing wooden kiosks leaving me to believe the pier owner must be cooperating with the developer.

Why on earth would the developer include new kiosks if there will never be any access to them?

By the way, the kiosk plans were for the first floor because I seem to recall there will be a car park on the ground floor with an entrance from the old Tuson's pathway.

OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #481 on: November 12, 2016, 06:20:45 PM »
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Also today Mr. Waldron has had a little set back as the Pier have cleared back the entrance to the site which revealed the original steps and boundary railing line now clearly marked marked with a very large new fence. He is going to need a crane to lift his excavator out and to get all his rubble removed. Site access is no longer an easy proposition.

When I asked what the pier thought of Mr Waldrons proposal to put kiosks on the ground floor of his development to replace the wooden kiosks the Pier has there currently I was told he had no chance

Good for him! I'd far rather the Pier survives and thrives than that carbuncle becomes a huge blot on the landscape. At least the Pier owner actually owns it unlike Mr Waldron's claims to own the Pavilion site. If I were the Pier owner I'd be building more than large fences to mark the boundary of all of his property.

I thought the plans for the Pavilion site said that the commercial element in the development would be cafe/restaurant based. You'll probably only be able to get the best views of Llandudno looking out from their windows as that way you won't be able to see their awful building.

Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #482 on: November 12, 2016, 06:36:13 PM »
The plans do include a restaurant.

From memory, it is on the second floor.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #483 on: November 12, 2016, 06:58:45 PM »
Blongb,  good luck with the letter to the developers asking for the names of those people who have given clear directions on this proposed building.     I don't expect that you'll get the answers you want though as this type of thing is not always open and honest.
IF  you do get a reply I expect that it will be something like this "  at this stage of the negotiation we cannot make a comment on your request"
Perhaps I'm too cynical but I've seen it all before in the town.
If you don't get any satisfaction from your letter then I would suggest that your local Councillor or MP should be approached as it is so important to the town and townsfolk.




PhilMick

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #484 on: November 13, 2016, 12:55:30 PM »
Does the Freedom of Information Act apply in these circumstances?

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #485 on: November 13, 2016, 01:21:44 PM »
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If you don't get any satisfaction from your letter then I would suggest that your local Councillor or MP should be approached as it is so important to the town and townsfolk.

Agreed and done on both counts.

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #486 on: November 13, 2016, 04:17:04 PM »
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If you don't get any satisfaction from your letter then I would suggest that your local Councillor or MP should be approached as it is so important to the town and townsfolk.

Agreed and done on both counts.

I suggested that because a PLC was proposing a development where we live and we approached our local Councillors and the MP and AM and we found them all very helpful.     Their action certainly kept the CCBC on their toes.


PhilMick,      If you ask for that on the FOI  Act  I suspect that the reply will be that they cannot disclose it while the matter is under discussion.
Might be worth a try though to do it  just to remind them of the strength of public feeling.
I'm awaiting a reply under the FOI Act on another eyesore in the town and am looking forward to the reply from CCBC



Blongb

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #487 on: November 13, 2016, 09:20:49 PM »
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Anyway, when I viewed the plans for the new kiosks recently in the library, they were incorporated into the new development and to the rear of the existing wooden kiosks leaving me to believe the pier owner must be cooperating with the developer.

Why on earth would the developer include new kiosks if there will never be any access to them?

By the way, the kiosk plans were for the first floor because I seem to recall there will be a car park on the ground floor with an entrance from the old Tuson's pathway.

You missed the little note by the Kiosks, on the proposed plans Bri. It said to be negotiated. Having talked to Adam Williams yesterday he was furious about that part of the design and said there was no way he would give up his wooden huts to give Mr waldron access to the pier. It just isn't going to happen. The proposed new kiosks would have been sited at Pier level, the Car Parking level you saw would be below in the pit.

You mentioned in a later post the plans include a restaurant. In fact it includes 2 restaurants over 2 floors each and Mr Williams said they were non starters as they would contravene codicil put on the Pavilion site by the Pier when the two were first split to protect the Pier.

Mr Waldron would have done well to have negotiated with Mr Williams before he disclosed his plans for discussion.   >>>

-- Now I can only sit and stare--

Bri Roberts

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #488 on: November 14, 2016, 09:23:27 AM »
I am very surprised to learn the developer and pier owner never met to discuss the developer's proposals.

I am also surprised the developer has not arranged to have a public meeting in Venue Cymru some time this month whilst his plans are out for public consultation.

On the subject of the kiosks, it makes sense for the new development to benefit from access to the pier if only for a fire exit otherwise the residents of over fifty apartments and the occupants of one or two cafe/restaurants will have to rely solely on exiting into North Parade.

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #489 on: November 14, 2016, 10:12:24 AM »
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Anyway, when I viewed the plans for the new kiosks recently in the library, they were incorporated into the new development and to the rear of the existing wooden kiosks leaving me to believe the pier owner must be cooperating with the developer.

Why on earth would the developer include new kiosks if there will never be any access to them?

By the way, the kiosk plans were for the first floor because I seem to recall there will be a car park on the ground floor with an entrance from the old Tuson's pathway.

You missed the little note by the Kiosks, on the proposed plans Bri. It said to be negotiated. Having talked to Adam Williams yesterday he was furious about that part of the design and said there was no way he would give up his wooden huts to give Mr waldron access to the pier. It just isn't going to happen. The proposed new kiosks would have been sited at Pier level, the Car Parking level you saw would be below in the pit.

You mentioned in a later post the plans include a restaurant. In fact it includes 2 restaurants over 2 floors each and Mr Williams said they were non starters as they would contravene codicil put on the Pavilion site by the Pier when the two were first split to protect the Pier.

Mr Waldron would have done well to have negotiated with Mr Williams before he disclosed his plans for discussion.   >>>
The proposed shops in the Pavilion complex are situated there because there is a covenant in the 1984 transfer documents that grants the owner of the Pavilion access to the pier along its frontage.

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #490 on: November 14, 2016, 10:15:12 AM »
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We have written to the developers and ask them for those very names Hugo and will publish them "IF" we get a response.
Why bother writing, when they are clearly named in the Daily Post article?

"Alwyn Rowlands, director of Creu, said their design had been created after consultation with Conwys planning and conservation chiefs, Cadw and the Design Commission of Wales."

 :roll:

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #491 on: November 14, 2016, 10:50:05 AM »
Just to pick up your points on your last two postings Dave

The first one   "The proposed shops in the Pavilion complex are situated there because there is a covenant in the 1984 transfer documents that grants the owner of the Pavilion access to the pier along its frontage."
Some years ago I had a face to face meeting with the Chief Planning Officer as the property we were objecting about had a Deed of Covenant on it and was told  that " the Deed of Covenant was not worth the paper it was written on"   This statement was repeated over and over again by other members of the Planning Department so what is different about this one?

The second point     "Why bother writing, when they are clearly named in the Daily Post article?"       I and some others must have missed out on seeing exactly who was clearly named in that article.    I can see an allegation of consultation with  Conwys planning and conservation chiefs, Cadw and the Design Commission of Wales but if that were true then the public should be entitled to see what has been said by whom and to whom.
But if you wanted to take it up with the alleged offices wouldn't it be prudent to have contact details so that your enquiry could be dealt with promptly.


DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #492 on: November 14, 2016, 11:18:08 AM »
The value of a Covenant is dependent upon the financial means of the person to enforce it legally...  ;)

SteveH

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #493 on: November 14, 2016, 11:18:54 AM »
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I am at a loss as to why CCBC would be worried over build costs, and why they (CCBC. CADW) would consider this design over the original, and still think this whole thing is slanted towards the developer.

Hugos quote above......an allegation of consultation with Conwys planning and conservation chiefs and CADW..........
Thats exactly the word  allegation, thier statement does not make sense, there is nothing about the new plan that makes sense.


DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #494 on: November 14, 2016, 11:42:57 AM »
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I am at a loss as to why CCBC would be worried over build costs, and why they (CCBC. CADW) would consider this design over the original, and still think this whole thing is slanted towards the developer.

Hugos quote above......an allegation of consultation with Conwys planning and conservation chiefs and CADW..........
Thats exactly the word  allegation, thier statement does not make sense, there is nothing about the new plan that makes sense.
It makes perfect sense if you understand planning policy. It is not considered acceptable under current Planning Policy to create a pastiche of a Victorian building if it is a new build. Planners prefer to see a clear differentiation between old and new buildings, so actively encourage a modern design for any new construction. If the original Pavilion building had survived, Planners would want to see it restored to its original design. What they don't want are new buildings masquerading as old buildings.